Anyone fancy co-parenting with LOJ?

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

Owen Jones wants a baby, and would like a lesbian couple to impregnate. Any takers on mumsnet? He could be quite a catch for someone looking for a sperm donor and a co-parent to raise a well balanced child.
He got a bit of flack, so is doubling down on the the "anti-trans cult" and calling everyone homophobic.

"your grasp of the physical reality of transplants and the process of surrogacy is so poor you think it would be possible."

Well, me and the gynaecologists and transplant experts who wrote this paper:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6492192/

Tw are not infertile, unless they had gender reassignment surgery.

What “transplant experts”? It literally hasn’t been done yet. If these “experts” were literally so, there’d be queues round the block.
Why do you think there aren’t?

Thing is - even if womb transplants could be a thing for tw (ignoring them not having a space for it to go or the correct plumbing and the fact that a womb still doesn't give you an ova and the moral implications of doing this experiment on a human fetus) ... there's still a difference between bio women born with wombs (who have their wombs taken from their corpses [hopefully corpses and not snatched from living women]) and the tw who require the transplant aren't there? There's still a class of people born with wombs and a class of people born without, a class that does the donating and a class that receives the donation.

So even with womb transplants tw will still not be the same as w.

So what an utterly pointless thing to say.

The fact is everyone knows about the reality of sex and has the ability to recognise it. That professional activists such as O.J also know, but because of their public profile have to also pretend not to know, reveals how much cognitive dissonance there is in having to maintain the politically correct position. One wrong step in any direction is suicide.

This is what happens when the necessity for the maintenance of consistency with one's tribe, becomes more important than truth, honesty and integrity.

From that paper:

Legally, under the Equality Act (2010) transgender people are afforded explicit protection from both direct and indirect forms of discrimination through the characterisation of ‘gender reassignment’ as a protected characteristic. As such, M2F transgender women cannot be subjected to discrimination on the basis of this characteristic. Subsequently, if UTx becomes an established treatment option for women with AUFI, UK and EU legislation would make it legally impermissible to refuse to perform UTx in transgender women solely because of their gender identity.

Wuh?!

@Shizuku

Hopefully womb transplants for trans women will be a thing soon, cos it'll be so much fun watching bigots imploding when a trans woman offers to be a surrogate for a gay couple.

And Little Combabe Jones can pop along in his flying car to collect the newborn, ‘cos that’ll be a thing too (as we’ve been told since the 1950s).

God, sci-fi is great.

Given that there are still an awful lot of biological women, with female reproductive and endocrine systems, who are unable to gestate a baby to term despite all the advances in medical science, I would say we are a pretty long way off getting it to work in a male body!

Contrary to what you might think about female bodies, a womb isn't just a sack that can just be shoved anywhere in a human and in which a baby will just start growing!

@Shizuku, I read somewhere that in Japan a transwoman is defined as someone who’s had full sex reassignment surgery. Is that the definition you use? Or do you think that just saying ‘I’m a woman’ without making any physical changes is sufficient?

[quote Shizuku]"your grasp of the physical reality of transplants and the process of surrogacy is so poor you think it would be possible."

Well, me and the gynaecologists and transplant experts who wrote this paper:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6492192/[/quote]
I love your papers, they are just so magnificently unconnected to the topic at hand, and they almost never demonstrate anything approaching what you purport they do. This one is no exception

Surrogates generally have to have two or more successful pregnancies behind them to be considered as suitable. The logistical difficulties of achieving one pregnancy through uterine transplant into a male body haven’t even begin to be addressed (they certainly aren’t addressed in your paper, they’re only noted), yet somehow you believe that it can happen multiple times, and that a infertile couple would choose to pursue this expensive, experimental option that will likely be extremely detrimental to the baby, rather than, you know...just go with a woman. (For the record, I don’t endorse any kind of surrogacy).

Barking.

I'm not sure which behaviour displays greater ignorance of female biology: drawing an analogy between women suffering from infertility and transwomen, or a belief that a womb transplant (implant surely if in a transwoman?) is all that is needed to create a baby.

We can add it to the list of expected advancements:

• Cold fusion
• Jet pack for commuting to work
• Owen Jones finding a lesbian couple willing to co-parent with him
• A transwoman having a uterus implanted in their male pelvis and successfully carrying a fetus that survives the environment and body not hormonally equipped to deal with it and the toxic effects of immunosuppressive drugs

Yep, us naysayers will soon have to shut up while the clever people fly about with unlimited energy and male order babies.

Hopefully womb transplants for trans women will be a thing soon

You're gloating over the death of women.

Male order babies

It's in the realms of science fiction, from what I understand.

And for a womb to be implanted into a male body, it would need to be sourced from a deceased woman, as so much other reproductive material would also need to be removed in order for there to be a chance of the womb being functional.

I'm not sure how many women of reproductive age die each year with a healthy reproductive system that could be implanted into a biologically male body...

And why? For the purposes of enabling a mtf transitioner to be a surrogate...?

There's a really fascinating thread on here about the placenta. I recommend reading it, Shizuku. The female body is pretty interesting.

“Male order babies” chortle

I believe that the few womb transplants in women so far have necessitated the removal of the womb when the baby was delivered.

I can't imagine it being less necessary for a donor recipient of the male sex, so I would have thought such an individual would be in the same situation has any woman who knows she can only physically manage one pregnancy.

That is, she would be best off not volunteering to be a surrogate. She should, instead, use her one chance to carry a baby for herself.

I do genuinely and sincerely think it's cavalierly insensitive to joke about getting our hypothetical transwoman to use her one and only chance to be pregnant to act as a surrogate for someone else.

When asked if he would date a trans man, he kicked off because as a gay man he is same sex attracted and called people homophobic for even asking.
What?
So trans women are women but trans men are.. still women? How does he square that?
My head hurts, tbh

I read a really interesting article a few years ago (wish I'd saved it because I'm shit at explaining ) about how pregnancy still isn't fully understood by professionals because of the intricate processes that happen.

If it's not fully understood what exactly happens naturally in women, they'll have a hard time mimicking it in a male body.

Pregnancy is such a fragile thing really, all it takes is one single mistake by the body doing it's natural thing, and it can end tragically. Every single healthy pregnancy and baby is a fucking miracle when you realise how many things can go wrong, how absolutely perfect every step your body takes has to be.

I know plenty of women who were bloody terrified of taking a paracetamol during pregnancy (my SIL scalded her face with a hot water bottle to ease toothache rather than taking painkillers as advised), so it makes me cold imagining all the drugs that would need to be involved to prevent a body that isn't made for pregnancy rejecting the womb and baby.

I'm only 28, and I'd bet good money that successful womb transplants in male bodies won't be something I see happen in my lifetime.

If you have an organ transplant you need to take drugs to avoid rejection.

As mentioned above - when pregnant you avoid drugs, alcohol, soft cheese, hair dye, cleaning chemicals... so why on earth would you create a situation where you need to take drugs to stop your body just ‘doing it’s thing’ and rejecting an organ it naturally doesn’t want/sees as ‘alien’ (would it also reject the foetus, so more drugs needed?).

‘Because I want to’ and ‘because it’s possible’ are not good enough reason as to play god.

Humanity doesn’t need the capability for more humans to be able to carry a baby. Science needs to figure to how feed and look after the ones we already have.

He was having a twitter conversation with a gay guy who is coparenting and aside from the banter expressed nointention serioussly of looking for someone to co parent with. It doesn't have to be a lesbian woman either does it? Single women who want children but not a relationship look for gay men to father children, and lets not forget surrogacy for same six and heterosexual couples and singles.

I read some of the comments and the attacks were quite bizzare as the logic made surrogacy look like something out of Gilead when applied.

Did you actually read the thread, disgusted?

The issue is the hypocrisy.

''Get yourself a lesbian or two''.

Like lesbians are just fucking toys you can order on Amazon or some shit

It doesn't have to be a lesbian woman either does it? Single women who want 9 but not a relationship look for gay men to father children, and lets not forget surrogacy for same six and heterosexual couples and singles.

"Woman"? Do you mean "menstruators" or "uterus havers"?

He was having a twitter conversation with a gay guy who is coparenting and aside from the banter expressed nointention serioussly of looking for someone to co parent with. It doesn't have to be a lesbian woman either does it? Single women who want children but not a relationship look for gay men to father children, and lets not forget surrogacy for same six and heterosexual couples and singles

Twitter conversations are not private. They are very much public. If you have such a public profile on which your following hinges on your political viewpoints, then you'd better be consistent. The issue is one of logical inconsistency.

Spouting mantras and just saying stuff is not the same as having thought through an issue thoroughly, and having your position make coherent sense.

Owen Jones opposes women having their own discrete services, provisions and sports; and, importantly, he has to negate the very reality of what being female is in order to achieve that position.

Logical consistency is not a natural strong point for gender ideologues.