I had the most awful row with my teenagers yesterday

[JensonsAcolyte]

Both totally TWAW adherents.

DS is 18, his girlfriend is Non Binary and goes by a made up name (male Greek god). I am polite and go along with pronouns and use their chosen name.

For some reason Eddie Izzard came up at dinner time and I ‘misgendered’ them. DS really started laying into me about my bigotry so I played him the clip of Eddie saying Eddie has boy mode and girl mode and uses both sets of pronouns (I've tied myself in knots there as I don’t want to be deleted).

It came out in the conversation that DS believes, absolutely and 100%, that Izzard has changed sex. Actually changed sex. And that if DH came down for breakfast this morning and announced he was now a woman then DS would absolutely 100% believe that he had changed sex overnight.

DD was chiming in at this point and said that actually she would like to go by she/they as sometimes she identifies as ‘less female’. I was a bit irate by this point and I’m afraid I said that is navel gazing bollocks (oops).

Anyway it all got a bit shouty, and then DS dropped in that ‘some lesbians have genital preferences, and ultimately that’s transphobic but nobody’s trying to force anyone to have sex with anyone’ and I lost my shit a bit. I’d hoped this nonsense was confined to Twitter tbh and I hadn’t really seen it in the wild.

I told him he was a privileged, woke little shit. That lesbians my age have spent their entire lives having to justify their sexuality, being told they just haven’t met the right man, not to mention the sexual assaults and corrective rapes. And now are being told they are BIGOTS for not including penis. I was really angry. He then turned round and said the reason his girlfriend (and yes he calls them his girlfriend which is a whole nother eye roll) doesn’t like coming here is because I’m well known for being a Terf and she feels unsafe.

I’ve basically left it as saying I don’t adhere to your religion but that doesn’t make me hateful or phobic, we had a bit more of an argument where he tried to say it’s not a religion but actually I think I made that point quite clear. I don’t believe in God but that doesn’t mean I hate Christians, I don’t believe people can change sex but that doesn’t make me Transphobic.

I’ve woken up this morning and I just still feel sick about it all. He called me some dreadful things, bigot, hateful, dangerous. I said some things I regret, particularly about the arrant nonsense that is non binary, I’m usually a lot more measured than that to avoid offence but I was just so angry.

Is anyone else having this with their teens? I could do with a bit of solidarity, advice maybe or just a hand hold.

“you are being offensive”

Can you actually explain why though and defend you’re position? Because I will listen and if there;s a convincing argument I’m open to changing my view. But it seems “wah, offensive” is all there is. If you have a reason for thinking what you think, please defend it rationally.

@WindyPudding

“you are being offensive”

Can you actually explain why though and defend you’re position? Because I will listen and if there;s a convincing argument I’m open to changing my view. But it seems “wah, offensive” is all there is. If you have a reason for thinking what you think, please defend it rationally.

Not the thread.

Hop over to gender and actually educate yourself instead of using offensive stereotypes.

Ah we’re back to ‘educate yourself’. I always like that one. Patronising and assuming that we will agree to follow the religion with the right ‘education’.

So that’s a no then.

“educate yourself”

I’ll listen to you explaining, educating me and dismantling my points with logical argument and evidence. Yet you won’t.

Offensive goes both ways. I think genderism is offensive with its refusal to accept biology and women’s sex-based rights, for example. However I don’t use “you’re offensive” to try to make my case, because it’s not an argument.

Here at FWR, we debate.

@JensonsAcolyte

Ah we’re back to ‘educate yourself’. I always like that one. Patronising and assuming that we will agree to follow the religion with the right ‘education’.

No.

Everyone can have their opinions.

But if someone wants to debate about it it would help if they knew more than Rik off the Young ones.

I've been very supportive of you in this thread op so your odd response here is not only disappointing but certainly showing your true colours.

@WindyPudding

So that’s a no then.

“educate yourself”

I’ll listen to you explaining, educating me and dismantling my points with logical argument and evidence. Yet you won’t.

Offensive goes both ways. I think genderism is offensive with its refusal to accept biology and women’s sex-based rights, for example. However I don’t use “you’re offensive” to try to make my case, because it’s not an argument.

Here at FWR, we debate.

Okdoke.

I also don't have a gender. I'm just me, and I happen to be female.

I don't believe in gender at all. In the same way I don't believe in Zeus, Thor or the tooth fairy.

@CloudFormations

If you called him a ‘woke little shit’ you don’t have much of a leg to stand on being upset at being called a bigot in return.

As hominem seems to beget as hominem, strange that

I’d actually be really interested to know what non binary means, if we take stereotypes out of it. Or trans for that matter.

No one, especially my kids, has given me a straight answer to that.

@Zeev

That's pretty much what I thought. It's a way for normal people to be a part of this nonsense without actually having to do anything. Confirmed by comments from PP teenagers "being straight is like social suicide".

Just popping in to offer my support OP. It is truly draining - my teens think I am transphobic etc etc etc simply because I have GC views. They are totally woke and we've just had to agree never to talk about trans stuff for the sake of maintaiing our relationships. It is seriously exhausting and very worrying how teens have been totally brainwashed.

Handhold from me too.

Thankfully my dss (21) and dd (14) both agree with my gender critical views, for now at least.

In the same way I don't believe in Zeus

Someone's non binary ears are burning.

Can ears be non binary?

I mean, there's two of them...

"You're offensive"

"Oh, please excuse me - how?"

"I'm not telling you, it's a secret. But stop it or you're a bigot"

... it's not much of an argument, is it?

@JensonsAcolyte

I’d actually be really interested to know what non binary means, if we take stereotypes out of it. Or trans for that matter.

No one, especially my kids, has given me a straight answer to that.

Nothing to say to my response to you Op? Or have you gathered enough support now you think it's OK to be rude?

@aliasundercover

"You're offensive"

"Oh, please excuse me - how?"

"I'm not telling you, it's a secret. But stop it or you're a bigot"

... it's not much of an argument, is it?

Yeh that's exactly how the convo went .

If I were your child, I would be angry at you. I am so tired of people preaching transphobia under the guise of feminism on mumsnet. I feel sorry for your sons girlfriend and I am glad he is supportive of her. It’s fine to have a genital preference as long as you don’t rub it in and claim that a straight male can’t be attracted to a trans woman. Super straight is definitely transphobic and gender critical feminists need to stop pretending to be the victims.

Yeh that's exactly how the convo went.

I think you’ve misunderstood the post you’ve quoted there.

‘claim that a straight male can’t be attracted to a trans woman’

I’m actually cringing for you.

@WomanWithAWo

If I were your child, I would be angry at you. I am so tired of people preaching transphobia under the guise of feminism on mumsnet. I feel sorry for your sons girlfriend and I am glad he is supportive of her. It’s fine to have a genital preference as long as you don’t rub it in and claim that a straight male can’t be attracted to a trans woman. Super straight is definitely transphobic and gender critical feminists need to stop pretending to be the victims.

Please do report any transphobic posts to MNHQ and they will delete them

It’s fine to have a genital preference as long as you don’t rub it in

I've not that homophobic line since the 90s.

*heard

Did a bat signal go off somewhere? What time zone, I wonder?

“oh god,
why
am I so much more sensitive than everybody else ?
why
do I feel things so much more acutely than them,
and understand so much more.
I bet I'm the first person who's ever felt as rotten as this.
could it be
that I'm going to grow up
to be a great poet and thinker, and all those other wankers in my class
are going to have to work in factories or go on the dole?
yes, I think it could.“

Rik

@Zeev

Did a bat signal go off somewhere? What time zone, I wonder?