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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I had the most awful row with my teenagers yesterday

999 replies

JensonsAcolyte · 28/03/2021 08:45

Both totally TWAW adherents.

DS is 18, his girlfriend is Non Binary and goes by a made up name (male Greek god). I am polite and go along with pronouns and use their chosen name.

For some reason Eddie Izzard came up at dinner time and I ‘misgendered’ them. DS really started laying into me about my bigotry so I played him the clip of Eddie saying Eddie has boy mode and girl mode and uses both sets of pronouns (I've tied myself in knots there as I don’t want to be deleted).

It came out in the conversation that DS believes, absolutely and 100%, that Izzard has changed sex. Actually changed sex. And that if DH came down for breakfast this morning and announced he was now a woman then DS would absolutely 100% believe that he had changed sex overnight.

DD was chiming in at this point and said that actually she would like to go by she/they as sometimes she identifies as ‘less female’. I was a bit irate by this point and I’m afraid I said that is navel gazing bollocks (oops).

Anyway it all got a bit shouty, and then DS dropped in that ‘some lesbians have genital preferences, and ultimately that’s transphobic but nobody’s trying to force anyone to have sex with anyone’ and I lost my shit a bit. I’d hoped this nonsense was confined to Twitter tbh and I hadn’t really seen it in the wild.

I told him he was a privileged, woke little shit. That lesbians my age have spent their entire lives having to justify their sexuality, being told they just haven’t met the right man, not to mention the sexual assaults and corrective rapes. And now are being told they are BIGOTS for not including penis. I was really angry. He then turned round and said the reason his girlfriend (and yes he calls them his girlfriend which is a whole nother eye roll) doesn’t like coming here is because I’m well known for being a Terf and she feels unsafe.

I’ve basically left it as saying I don’t adhere to your religion but that doesn’t make me hateful or phobic, we had a bit more of an argument where he tried to say it’s not a religion but actually I think I made that point quite clear. I don’t believe in God but that doesn’t mean I hate Christians, I don’t believe people can change sex but that doesn’t make me Transphobic.

I’ve woken up this morning and I just still feel sick about it all. He called me some dreadful things, bigot, hateful, dangerous. I said some things I regret, particularly about the arrant nonsense that is non binary, I’m usually a lot more measured than that to avoid offence but I was just so angry.

Is anyone else having this with their teens? I could do with a bit of solidarity, advice maybe or just a hand hold.

OP posts:
Clymene · 28/03/2021 19:21

I'm very glad these children have no idea what it's like to feel unsafe in their homes but it just utterly trivialises a tragic and sadly too common reality for many children.

See also claims of violence

BigButtons · 28/03/2021 19:29

Just read the OP to my 17 year old dd. She said they( op’s dc) were idiots with nothing better to worry about.

Angrymum22 · 28/03/2021 19:38

It’s attention seeking, teenagers are professional attention seekers. They forget that we were once teenagers too and most of us cringe at the thought of the lengths we went to to wind up our poor parents.
I am fortunate that my DS16 has the sense to tolerate this teenage trend but the intelligence to know it is a passing trend. He is a grammar pedant and is quite cutting about pronouns. I am so glad he has come out as a heterosexual he/him who likes girls and plays rugby. His life will be uncomplicated as a result.

flyingfoxkins · 28/03/2021 19:38

@NecessaryScene1

Rock and roll this isn't.

Indeed. Undirected youthful rebellion is healthy, and generally not dangerous.

Directed youthful rebellion is very dangerous.

Thinking of China here and the Red Guards.
Bouny · 28/03/2021 19:40

Awful. Poor you. My teens, thankfully, swim against the tide and do not believe that TWAW.

dayoftheclownfish · 28/03/2021 19:56

Maybe the NB girlfriend has been the problem all along? Young people can sometimes be alienated from their families by girl/boyfriends. Happened in my family, too, girl in question was manipulative, hostile and sneaky, poisoning the mind of her boyfriend against members of his family and making family occasions a nightmare. She chilled out later but took advantage of him financially and left him for somebody else.

RootyT00t · 28/03/2021 20:05

@Bouny

Awful. Poor you. My teens, thankfully, swim against the tide and do not believe that TWAW.
No comment.
ImpatiensI · 28/03/2021 20:16

@Bouny

Awful. Poor you. My teens, thankfully, swim against the tide and do not believe that TWAW.
Same.
crashbandicootwarped · 28/03/2021 20:58

I feel utter disgust when middle class kids who have known nothing but child-centred parenting and economic security claim to feel unsafe when someone in the same building as them has opinions with which they disagree.

Agreed

I couldn't let the 'my girls friend feels unsafe in this house' slide as if it wasn't said.

It's beyond insulting - it is potentially very damaging to you personally. I work with children and vulnerable adults and an accusation like that could have very serious ramifications.

The spoilt brat has no concept of that and another conversation about it ought to be had. Maybe as your dh was able to navigate the agreement unscathed he needs to bring this up. How dare your girlfriend accuse my wife, your mother of being a danger to her! Type thing

newyearnewname123 · 28/03/2021 21:02

I am so glad he has come out as a heterosexual he/him who likes girls and plays rugby. His life will be uncomplicated as a result

If only life were so simple that being straight and gender conforming was sufficient to have an uncomplicated life.

Pancaketopping · 28/03/2021 21:31

No comment.

What's the point of posts like this?

Butwasitherdriveway · 28/03/2021 21:32

@Pancaketopping

No comment.

What's the point of posts like this?

That is obvious.
grapewine · 28/03/2021 21:39

To be fair, your children do sound like woke, self centered little shits. So you're right about that. I would have lost my shit too, OP. Especially over your husband getting "that's up to you" while you get told that you're "dangerous". Fuck that. I'm actually angry.

Merename · 28/03/2021 22:16

Ughhh it sounds horrible. Obviously discussions go better when not so animated but this is so emotive and their views are uncritical to an extreme level. Like you say I also hoped this is Twitter and not what most real young people think.

I’ve just had a version of this with my DH who usually is quite sensible but just listened to a podcast and now apparently believes that puberty blockers are not an inevitable pathway to cross sex hormones. The trans person speaking suggested that the data only suggests this because the young people put forward for PBs were ‘cast-iron’ cases of dysphoria and the less clear cases don’t go on them. It feels so personal when someone you love accepts bullshit that perpetuates the shite women have endured for millennia.

apurplecar · 28/03/2021 22:19

@Branleuse

All the kids love this stuff at the moment. I would avoid the subject. Most of them will grow up and grow out of it. one of my dc identifies as non binary, and I mostly now go along with it, although they do know my views on it. We have an agree to disagree arrangement and I concentrate on that its ok to have different beliefs. I am kind of expecting a proper falling out at some point though if it continues.

I just think that young people are desperatly trying to find their place in the world and to have an identity and a group. Its kind of the new punk.
Im just grateful theyre not a tory

Again. Another judgemental post from the #bekind left
vimtosogood · 28/03/2021 22:23

What is non binary in practice? All of the non binary people I've ever seen look very much male/female and make no effort to appear differently.

MarshmallowAra · 28/03/2021 22:24

Most of us cringe to think back to our opinions and pronouncements when we were teenagers and early twenties.

Yours mag be the same.

In the meantime your biggest mistake was taking their opinions seriously and trying to debate/reason with them. An inward eye roll and smile, while ignoring them are your go to.

I don't think the brain is nature til 25 and even after that you're often still silly for quite some time.

Stopsnowing · 28/03/2021 22:27

I am so tired of having feminism teensplained to me and being called transphobic.

Butwasitherdriveway · 28/03/2021 22:28

@vimtosogood

What is non binary in practice? All of the non binary people I've ever seen look very much male/female and make no effort to appear differently.
I'm assume you're being genuine.

No gender.

Zeev · 28/03/2021 22:30

@vimtosogood

What is non binary in practice? All of the non binary people I've ever seen look very much male/female and make no effort to appear differently.
It's basically the new "I'm not like the other girls, I'm interesting"
CloudFormations · 28/03/2021 22:30

If you called him a ‘woke little shit’ you don’t have much of a leg to stand on being upset at being called a bigot in return.

Butwasitherdriveway · 28/03/2021 22:31

@CloudFormations

If you called him a ‘woke little shit’ you don’t have much of a leg to stand on being upset at being called a bigot in return.
He is a woke little shit.
Butwasitherdriveway · 28/03/2021 22:31

@Zeev please stop being so offensive.

WindyPudding · 28/03/2021 22:46

But lots of people don’t have “a gender”. I don’t, I’m just female, a woman. Gender is variable, evolving cultural expression, likes and dislikes, expectations, attire etc associated with masculine and feminine stereotypes. You don’t have to adhere to those stereotypes and not doing so 100% is very normal. People have been ignoring or breaking free of them for centuries. I am just as “non-binary” as anyone else, because gender isn’t binary. (sex is, gender isn’t.)

The only difference between me and a “non-binary” person is that they make this declaration that means they are now magically “trans”, oppressed and special. It couldn’t be more Rik out of the Young Ones if you made it up.

Butwasitherdriveway · 28/03/2021 22:47

@WindyPudding

But lots of people don’t have “a gender”. I don’t, I’m just female, a woman. Gender is variable, evolving cultural expression, likes and dislikes, expectations, attire etc associated with masculine and feminine stereotypes. You don’t have to adhere to those stereotypes and not doing so 100% is very normal. People have been ignoring or breaking free of them for centuries. I am just as “non-binary” as anyone else, because gender isn’t binary. (sex is, gender isn’t.)

The only difference between me and a “non-binary” person is that they make this declaration that means they are now magically “trans”, oppressed and special. It couldn’t be more Rik out of the Young Ones if you made it up.

You are being offensive.