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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reddit banning users for sharing Julie Bindel article

483 replies

Cwenthryth · 23/03/2021 17:57

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1374372934379204608?s=21
Julie Bindel has shared on Twitter that Reddit is banning any mention or sharing of her Spectator article & banning users for discussion Aimee Challenor/Knight as well.

Here’s the spec article
www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-green-party-s-growing-contempt-for-women-s-rights

Reddit banning users for sharing Julie Bindel article
Reddit banning users for sharing Julie Bindel article
OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Zeev · 28/03/2021 15:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NecessaryScene1 · 28/03/2021 15:53

Following on from previous bits about Jesse Singal vs Glinner - looks like BAR are addressing it in their latest Patreon episode:

Let's Talk About Graham Linehan And Aimee Challenor/Knight And Reddit And Pedophilia

HOO BOY. Jesse and Katie discuss their critique of Graham Linehan's approach to gender-critical online activism, but then talk about a deeply disturbing story of Reddit censorship in which his newsletter played an undeniably important journalistic role.

Settling down for a listen...

(I'm wondering how outraged all the anti-Jesse outrage mob will be that they would have to pay money to Jesse and Katie to hear how outraged they should be... Grin I suspect I won't get beyond exasperated/grumpy.)

WarriorN · 28/03/2021 19:10

I'd forgotten this is how Miranda got banned from twitter...

mirandayardley.com/en/i-permanently-banned-twitter-make-worry/

R0wantrees · 30/03/2021 10:24

I'd forgotten this is how Miranda got banned from twitter...

June 2018 BBC Trending interview with Miranda Yardley and Aimee Challenor discussing the Twitter ban.

'A Transgender Twitter Fight'

"It was one short tweet. A transgender activist Miranda Yardley called another transgender activist, Aimee Challenor, a “man”. It certainly wasn’t the first controversial or potentially offensive remark that Miranda Yardley had tweeted out, but it does appear that it was the final straw for Twitter, which handed her a permanent ban. While Miranda says that her views should be protected under the principle of free speech, Aimee says the tweet - and other comments posted online - were part of a long pattern of bullying and harassment. Trending explores the complicated political world of transgender activism and how philosophical battles within transgender communities are playing out on social media."

Presenter: Lee Kumutat
Reporter: Mike Wendling

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csws6r

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3286600-BBC-World-Service-programme-about-Miranda-Yardley-and-Aimee-Challenor

R0wantrees · 30/03/2021 10:31

It certainly wasn’t the first controversial or potentially offensive remark that Miranda Yardley had tweeted out, but it does appear that it was the final straw for Twitter, which handed her a permanent ban.

Tweet

Reddit banning users for sharing Julie Bindel article
Zeev · 30/03/2021 11:10

The talk guidelines aren't helping me to understand why many of my comments first stand for a good many hours and then are suddenly deleted, but ho hum.

Imagine giving a regular 23-year-old this much power? Not only could Aimee admin conversations and subreddits over on reddit, Aimee also had clout in two big political parties and could/can people banned from twitter. When I was 23, nobody cared if someone called me a man (and people sometimes did, I was gender-nonconforming).

KimThomas · 30/03/2021 11:15

Is it ok to share this piece that I wrote about Challenor? It covers some of the issues but I didn’t have space to tackle them all. I also refer to Challenor as “she”, which some people have taken issue with (probably rightly): www.uncancelled.co.uk/tie-world/gender/what-does-the-aimee-challenor-case-teach-us/

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 30/03/2021 11:22

Excellent article Kim

toffeebutterpopcorn · 30/03/2021 11:37

Holy moles.

Zeev · 30/03/2021 12:09

That's a great article, very matter-of-fact

MichelleofzeResistance · 30/03/2021 12:40

he talk guidelines aren't helping me to understand why many of my comments first stand for a good many hours and then are suddenly deleted, but ho hum.

Comments are not automatically moderated, they are only looked at if someone reports one. So a comment may stand for hours, days, weeks or more before someone reads it who feels it should be reported.

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 30/03/2021 12:41

[quote KimThomas]Is it ok to share this piece that I wrote about Challenor? It covers some of the issues but I didn’t have space to tackle them all. I also refer to Challenor as “she”, which some people have taken issue with (probably rightly): www.uncancelled.co.uk/tie-world/gender/what-does-the-aimee-challenor-case-teach-us/[/quote]
Thanks Kim, great article Smile

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/03/2021 14:31

@Zeev

The talk guidelines aren't helping me to understand why many of my comments first stand for a good many hours and then are suddenly deleted, but ho hum.

Imagine giving a regular 23-year-old this much power? Not only could Aimee admin conversations and subreddits over on reddit, Aimee also had clout in two big political parties and could/can people banned from twitter. When I was 23, nobody cared if someone called me a man (and people sometimes did, I was gender-nonconforming).

I'll never forget the Twitter back and forth in which AC thanked a Deputy Chief Constable for the invitation to address/teach some police group/cohort or other and the DCC thanked AC.

Giving evidence to HoC committees, addressing senior police officials. Remarkable amount of influence and negligible accountability or due diligence.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/03/2021 14:57

It's astounding, isn't it. I can only assume everybody thought everyone else had done the due diligence (that's an extremely charitable interpretation). I used to drive my children mad when they were younger by trotting out this corny old saying at every opportunity - 'To assume makes an ASS out of U and Me'.

Good article, Kim. I'd just like to add that although Graham Linehan has indeed done a great job of shining a spotlight on this, all the initial spadework of digging through the huge social media and other internet presences of the Challenor family was done by people, mostly women, posting either here or on Twitter, shortly after Challenor senior was sentenced, so coming up to three years ago. There's a great deal of info on 🥝 too. There's a lot to criticise KF for, but they are very hot on archiving and backing claims up with screenshots and links.

The mainstream media has by and large ignored what was right under their noses here. Investigative journalism seems to be dying out. As for the management of Reddit, what a shower.

KimThomas · 30/03/2021 15:59

Thank you for the kind words, and you’re completely right, Gasp, about the amazing work Mumsnetters (and indeed Kiwi Farmers) have done in digging out all this stuff. I probably should have acknowledged that.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/03/2021 16:04

In June, Aimee Challoner addressed the West Midlands Police Force Leadership Conference, invited by West Midlands Police LGBT Network, and was thanked by the Chief Constable. This is extraordinary given that Aimee's father and election agent, who lived in the same house, was at that time charged with heinous crimes

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346800-Andrew-Gilligan-Sunday-Times-Challenor-Green-Party?messages=100&pg=1

RadandMad · 30/03/2021 16:50

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]In June, Aimee Challoner addressed the West Midlands Police Force Leadership Conference, invited by West Midlands Police LGBT Network, and was thanked by the Chief Constable. This is extraordinary given that Aimee's father and election agent, who lived in the same house, was at that time charged with heinous crimes

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346800-Andrew-Gilligan-Sunday-Times-Challenor-Green-Party?messages=100&pg=1[/quote]
I still can't get my head around that.

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 30/03/2021 16:52

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]In June, Aimee Challoner addressed the West Midlands Police Force Leadership Conference, invited by West Midlands Police LGBT Network, and was thanked by the Chief Constable. This is extraordinary given that Aimee's father and election agent, who lived in the same house, was at that time charged with heinous crimes

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346800-Andrew-Gilligan-Sunday-Times-Challenor-Green-Party?messages=100&pg=1[/quote]
This is batshit. What happened to due diligence? Sacred caste etc

toffeebutterpopcorn · 30/03/2021 16:58

Don’t things like this get investigated? Definitely shows lack of judgement at the very least.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/03/2021 17:04

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Don’t things like this get investigated? Definitely shows lack of judgement at the very least.
I think you might be interested in just how many organisations are in thrall to "lived experience" and are prepared to accept pretty much anybody who ticks that box if it fulfils some need or other.

There is a huge need for coproduction and user-led research in a number of areas (eg healthcare, experience of having been a looked-after child, or being someone living with an intellectual/cognitive disability.) However, it's increasingly concerning that there is a strong push to have everything centring people with "lived experience" with almost no due diligence involved as to the suitability of people wrt the vulnerable demographics involved.

WarriorN · 30/03/2021 17:17

@R0wantrees

It certainly wasn’t the first controversial or potentially offensive remark that Miranda Yardley had tweeted out, but it does appear that it was the final straw for Twitter, which handed her a permanent ban.

Tweet

Note the RT by Dr Harrop.

Xanthangum · 30/03/2021 17:29

Note the RT by Dr Harrop

He seems to have gone very quiet.

R0wantrees · 30/03/2021 17:34

There is a huge need for coproduction and user-led research in a number of areas (eg healthcare, experience of having been a looked-after child, or being someone living with an intellectual/cognitive disability.) However, it's increasingly concerning that there is a strong push to have everything centring people with "lived experience" with almost no due diligence involved as to the suitability of people wrt the vulnerable demographics involved.

Westminster Committee on Standards in Public Life
Research and analysis
'Intimidation in Public Life: Evidence from the Green Party'

TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING WITH AIMEE CHALLENOR, GREEN PARTY CANDIDATE
FOR COVENTRY SOUTH IN 2017 GENERAL ELECTION
21 September 2017, London
Committee members present: Lord Bew (Chair), Sheila Drew Smith OBE, Dr Jane Martin CBE, Jane Ramsey, Monisha Shah, Rt Hon Lord Stunell OBE
(extract)
Lord Bew: We are very grateful to you for coming along today. This is not a new issue, some say it is the behaviour of politicians that bring this upon themselves. Most say that something happened to a new level in the last election. We would like to hear your experience.

Aimee Challenor: Good morning, my name is Aimee Challenor. I stood in Coventry South for the Green Party in the last General Election, I’m 19 and I’m openly transgender.
It is my opinion that our society as a whole is becoming more divided, with an increasing amount of hate being reported each year. Not just in the past election. This applies to those in the public life just as much as anyone else, and in today’s social media era, it is relentless.
In the election campaign, I was targeted because I was an openly transgender person in politics, I received tweets or direct messages calling me a “delusional child abusing freak” . I had people telling me to kill myself, comments saying “zero debate needed, just point and
laugh hysterically. This needs bullying”. It is quite clear from the most recent general election in the UK, as well as conduct during other recent elections around the world, that politics is becoming more toxic. Intimidation from activists, members, and indeed other
candidates is growing. More can, and should, be done by all parties to tackle this behaviour and offer support to candidates.
These actions should include implementation and proper enforcement of Codes of Conduct, as well as the introduction of a ‘Candidate Welfare Officer’ or similar, so that Candidates
may have a point-of-contact. It is also my belief that action needs to be improved beyond political parties, social media websites need to improve at removing abusive content: too often I see “We reviewed your report carefully and found that there was no violation of our
Rules regarding abusive behaviour” - this has happened with some of the comments I read out to you earlier. Division in society is fuelled by social media; people feel they have an anonymous face. And it is fuelled by others behaving in a hateful way, it encourages others.
Politics is also to blame. The Referendum campaign was very divisive, and hateful to particular groups of people. This legitimised the abusive behaviour that candidates have had to face this year.
More needs to be done by the Police, when I myself have reported abusive content to the appropriate authorities, it’s been brushed aside and eventually not even forwarded on to the Crown Prosecution Service.
Therefore I’d like to suggest that the Committee should hear from social networks themselves, it would be sad if if you only look at what political parties should do to help candidates, which is definitely part of the solution, but political parties are going to need the help of those who can take enforcement action.
Why is it so important we get this right? Because Parliament is meant to be representative of society, but with the threat of intimidation and abuse becoming ever larger, diverse candidates are questioning whether or not to stand. In the 2017 General Election, there were
only 9 openly transgender candidates across all parties across the United Kingdom, To summarise; 1. There is a growing division in this country, and more needs to be done to address it. 2. The Committee should hear from social media companies 3. Parties can and should do more, I’d like to see a Candidate Welfare Officer in each Party 4. Intimidation and abuse of candidates needs to be taken more seriously by those who can take action" (continues)

Aimee Challenor: We have particular groups e.g. Greens of colour, women, LGBTIQA+ and others. These groups specialise in supporting these people - has led to better relations with the Party. At election time they form a key part of supporting those groups of people.
Generally, it’s support with emails, social media, and peer support. We did some press handling too for a transgender candidate where the local media wanted to write pieces referring to the candidate’s gender identity in a sensationalist way and the candidate was very uncomfortable with their use of language. We worked with the paper and also reported to Trans Media Watch, which did help. After we spoke to the newspaper, they did write a piece using more appropriate language." (continues)

"With respect to the Green Party, there is an executive, and a regional committee. We can recall leadership if they are bringing the Party into disrepute. There have been no difficulties with Caroline Lucas or our other Spokespeople." (continues)

www.gov.uk/government/publications/intimidation-of-parliamentary-candidates-evidence-from-the-green-party

SunsetBeetch · 30/03/2021 19:19

Video from Rose of Dawn. It's really good.

WarriorN · 30/03/2021 22:21

Wow that is good. Thanks .

"Successfully weaponise her identities." (At the end) using the status of trans to excuse behaviour.

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