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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are we the Baddies? Yes (well some!) according to the Daily Express: LGBT community is at war with itself, transphobia in the LGBT world has to STOP

140 replies

MishyJDI · 23/03/2021 12:09

I have to agree with a lot of this: Too much time worrying about a minority in echo chambers like this, and not enough fighting the real issues of feminism - patriarchy remains the number one enemy!

Mostly the younger generation get it, which is why there is such a disconnect and dismay expressed often on here.

(I'm sure this will make the Bunbury tales of scones and jam recipes - but seriously, trans ideology obsession on here is ludicrous.) Let's focus on real changes for women and girls that improve all our lives.

From the Daily Express

www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1413110/transphobic-trans-what-is-transgender-JK-Rowling-LGBT-community-TERF/amp?

The LGBT community is at war with itself, transphobia in the LGBT world has to STOP - COMMENT

RESIGNATIONS from three Government LGBT advisers over Equalities Minister Liz Truss and Boris Johnson's Government failure on LGBT rights (including dragging its feet to grant trans people rights in the UK) comes as no surprise.

By Maryann Wright

Ending the trans culture war once and for all, and outlawing so-called conversion therapy which treats sexuality and gender nonconformity as a choice or mental health problem, is a stagnant, three-year-old promise. Policy delay from the Conservative government is frustrating and devastating for our LGBT community, but the continual warfare amongst our own is a deeply insidious undercurrent that needs rooting out too. I’m talking about transphobia within the LGBT community.

The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology.

The distorted fear that transwomen will invade women’s spaces to victimise them, or even more outrageous, coerce lesbians to sleep with them, implying that lesbians must accept transwomen as sexual partners so as not to be labelled as trans-exclusionary, and that sex isn’t based on consent.

Or the assumption that men will misleadingly dress up as women and pose threats of sexual violence in women’s toilets because of Britain's 2010 Equality Act that protects trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces.

A small group of lesbian feminists called “Get the L Out” even go so far to claim that lesbian-only spaces are disappearing because of transwomen, “leading to difficulties in meeting like-minded women.”

As someone who runs women-only spaces inclusive of trans and cis-gendered women and genderqueer, non-binary people, for the very purpose of offering alternatives to male-dominated LGBT bars and clubs, I call BS.

I agree that LGBT spaces and activism is still male-dominated, and that more needs to be done to promote equality within the LGBT community, but the idea that transgender inclusivity harms women, and lesbians in particular, is just ludicrous.

Persecuting an even smaller minority within an already marginalised community is counter intuitive and harmful, whether you’re taking an LGBT or feminist perspective.

Firstly, let’s bust an insidious myth. There is no evidence that trans-inclusive laws lead to a rise in assaults, stalking or harassment in single-sex spaces.

The loud, transphobic noise coming from trans exclusionary radical feminists, or TERFs, of late is fear mongering.

Trans activism isn’t eroding women and girls' rights to single-sex spaces by "offering cover to predators," nor are trans-inclusionary policies "playing fast and loose with women's and girls' safety".

Do you know whose safety we are playing fast and loose with in this debate, though? Trans people.

Almost 50 percent of transgender people have experienced a hate crime because of their gender identity in the last 12 months, and 67 percent of trans people surveyed by the Government Equalities Office said they’d avoided being open about their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction.

Transphobic arguments weaponise transpeople as if they are transgressors, harking back to the old and demeaning cinematic trope of cross-dressing serial killers, and yet the reality is that trans people are the ones being transgressed.

We need to be protecting trans people, not the other way around. Any suggestion otherwise is incongruent to the facts.

It isn’t too small a point to also remember that transgender people make up 13 percent of the LGBT community, so any claims that transwomen are invading lesbian spaces is an exaggeration at best.

All of this fear mongering strikes me as history repeating itself.
Thirty years ago we were having this discussion about gay people, living under the revolting Section 28 of Margaret Thatcher’s government, which prohibited the promotion of homosexuality. Back then, living my cis lesbian life in the UK would have been questioned and persecuted.

Now, we are lucky to have made real progress in battling homophobia, and we need to ensure that progress passes down to our trans friends.

Lesbian rights are not under attack by the trans movement.
Transphobia has no place in feminism and no place in the LGBT community.

It is not a competition about who is having the most horrible time. There’s not a finite amount of equality.

Yes, the dominance of the patriarchy is alive and well, and misogyny is exhausting.

But it is not mutually exclusive to recognise that society as a whole is patriarchal and women are more likely to be killed by a partner, earn less, and find it difficult to go back to work after having a baby, and that people get to decide their gender identity.

Let’s also not confuse cismen with transwomen. The lived experience is entirely different, whether or not you respect their gender identity.
So many people have a complete disconnect with the lived experience of a trans person, and they don’t take time to consider this before casting judgment.

We need to stop perpetuating hypothetical fears not based in reality. The distortion and the hyperbole is destructive. The conversation has to mature.

How about we move the discussion to supporting trans people. Let’s ensure the Gender Recognition Act and Equality Act is fit for purpose. Let’s ban conversion therapy.

"Let’s instil a supportive framework within the LGBT community that encourages a person’s right to choose to express their gender identity."

The in-fighting needs to stop, let’s work with trans people to protect their right to a life of self-definition, safety and peace.

Maryann Wright is the Founder of Sappho Events, producing safe, sober and social events for LGBT women and non-binary people. www.sapphoevents.co.uk

OP posts:
Flapjak · 23/03/2021 20:10

What is a woman ??? How does a middle aged male have the lived experience of a woman. In what way is 'woman' as an identity that can be worn like a piece of clothing a la eddie izzard, different to woman as a biological category.

BettyFilous · 23/03/2021 20:12

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

While I don’t doubt for a moment that 50% of trans people have suffered hate crime if women reported all the misogynistic comments assaults they suffered it would be well over 50% but because it’s so damn common no one even mentions it

Its a bit different but a gay young man i know was talking about being groped and assaulted in gay bars and he said ‘if it happened to a woman they would be outrage’ i was 😳

That’s hilarious. My friend told me about her gay brother taking her straight brother out clubbing in Soho. She said he had a much better appreciation of women’s experiences on a night out afterwards.
PotholeHellhole · 23/03/2021 20:27

Recent stats from a survey said that 97% of women aged between 18-24 had been sexually harassed in a public place.

As we've all been 18-24, even if we aren't now, that suggests 97% of women have been harassed in public.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 23/03/2021 20:29

She said he had a much better appreciation of women’s experiences on a night out afterwards

I bet he did 😀

Delphinium20 · 23/03/2021 21:22

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

She said he had a much better appreciation of women’s experiences on a night out afterwards

I bet he did 😀

And yet he still doesn't have the understanding of always being at a physical disadvantage.
Helleofabore · 23/03/2021 21:28

@DialSquare

Maybe they've gone round the world with Lisa to help her find her baby.
Ever since I read their post that song has been an earworm. And I was going to post some smart arsed thing but got busy.

But this was brilliant.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 24/03/2021 08:40

I'm delighted that a goady thread about trans-identifying children has been deleted.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 24/03/2021 08:41

Wrong thread! Ah well.

ThisIsSimplyBeyond · 24/03/2021 09:31

If there were two movements, one for sexism against female bodies (including transmen), and one for "genderism" against feminine presentations (including both passing transwomen, and your bogstandard man in a skirt), I'm sure we could all get on board with that.

But it doesn't work like that, as the assumptions from '2' stem from either the biological reality of '1', or from homophobia. It's not a completely separate issue.

ThisIsSimplyBeyond · 24/03/2021 09:33

I'm sure I've said something 'wrong' there and will have the censors on the case. I have genuinely tried to write it carefully - but the sands shift under your feet here, so who knows...? 🤷🏼‍♀️

flyingfoxkins · 24/03/2021 10:20

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Good grief. Do we have to keep on going all the way back to the beginning again?

Is it because some quite important people have recently shouted back TWAM?

Or Mother has legal meaning?

Or single sex spaces are absolutely legal?

Is that why we are being treated to a time travelling, press the reset button, take it all back to square one thread?

Pshaw!

This. Its very tiresome to be ranted at by some ill-informed columnist.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/03/2021 10:22

In the Express of all places. Like the Mail, I think they often run these stories as clickbait.

flyingfoxkins · 24/03/2021 10:32

@TheFnozwhowasmirage

DialSquare you made me squirt tea down my nose!Grin Is it me,or does the increased number of posters coming into this board and deliberately being obtuse,signify that us uppity women are getting some people's backs up? Meanwhile,I'm still here because a poster yesterday claimed that sheep have a gender identity,but never actually explained how. I'd like to know because I'm due in the lambing shed in 10 minutes and don't want to misgender any of my girls.
This made me laugh out loud. Gotta love a good ewe.
TeiTetua · 24/03/2021 12:13

The wolves are in sheep's clothing because they identify as sheep, and don't you dare say they intend to do any harm!

SetYourselfOnFire · 25/03/2021 04:21

The biggest threat to gay rights and women's rights in the West is the trans movement, not right wingers. It's not even a contest.

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