Are we the Baddies? Yes (well some!) according to the Daily Express: LGBT community is at war with itself, transphobia in the LGBT world has to STOP

[MishyJDI]

I have to agree with a lot of this: Too much time worrying about a minority in echo chambers like this, and not enough fighting the real issues of feminism - patriarchy remains the number one enemy!

Mostly the younger generation get it, which is why there is such a disconnect and dismay expressed often on here.

(I'm sure this will make the Bunbury tales of scones and jam recipes - but seriously, trans ideology obsession on here is ludicrous.) Let's focus on real changes for women and girls that improve all our lives.

From the Daily Express

www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1413110/transphobic-trans-what-is-transgender-JK-Rowling-LGBT-community-TERF/amp?

The LGBT community is at war with itself, transphobia in the LGBT world has to STOP - COMMENT

RESIGNATIONS from three Government LGBT advisers over Equalities Minister Liz Truss and Boris Johnson's Government failure on LGBT rights (including dragging its feet to grant trans people rights in the UK) comes as no surprise.

By Maryann Wright

Ending the trans culture war once and for all, and outlawing so-called conversion therapy which treats sexuality and gender nonconformity as a choice or mental health problem, is a stagnant, three-year-old promise. Policy delay from the Conservative government is frustrating and devastating for our LGBT community, but the continual warfare amongst our own is a deeply insidious undercurrent that needs rooting out too. I’m talking about transphobia within the LGBT community.

The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology.

The distorted fear that transwomen will invade women’s spaces to victimise them, or even more outrageous, coerce lesbians to sleep with them, implying that lesbians must accept transwomen as sexual partners so as not to be labelled as trans-exclusionary, and that sex isn’t based on consent.

Or the assumption that men will misleadingly dress up as women and pose threats of sexual violence in women’s toilets because of Britain's 2010 Equality Act that protects trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces.

A small group of lesbian feminists called “Get the L Out” even go so far to claim that lesbian-only spaces are disappearing because of transwomen, “leading to difficulties in meeting like-minded women.”

As someone who runs women-only spaces inclusive of trans and cis-gendered women and genderqueer, non-binary people, for the very purpose of offering alternatives to male-dominated LGBT bars and clubs, I call BS.

I agree that LGBT spaces and activism is still male-dominated, and that more needs to be done to promote equality within the LGBT community, but the idea that transgender inclusivity harms women, and lesbians in particular, is just ludicrous.

Persecuting an even smaller minority within an already marginalised community is counter intuitive and harmful, whether you’re taking an LGBT or feminist perspective.

Firstly, let’s bust an insidious myth. There is no evidence that trans-inclusive laws lead to a rise in assaults, stalking or harassment in single-sex spaces.

The loud, transphobic noise coming from trans exclusionary radical feminists, or TERFs, of late is fear mongering.

Trans activism isn’t eroding women and girls' rights to single-sex spaces by "offering cover to predators," nor are trans-inclusionary policies "playing fast and loose with women's and girls' safety".

Do you know whose safety we are playing fast and loose with in this debate, though? Trans people.

Almost 50 percent of transgender people have experienced a hate crime because of their gender identity in the last 12 months, and 67 percent of trans people surveyed by the Government Equalities Office said they’d avoided being open about their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction.

Transphobic arguments weaponise transpeople as if they are transgressors, harking back to the old and demeaning cinematic trope of cross-dressing serial killers, and yet the reality is that trans people are the ones being transgressed.

We need to be protecting trans people, not the other way around. Any suggestion otherwise is incongruent to the facts.

It isn’t too small a point to also remember that transgender people make up 13 percent of the LGBT community, so any claims that transwomen are invading lesbian spaces is an exaggeration at best.

All of this fear mongering strikes me as history repeating itself.
Thirty years ago we were having this discussion about gay people, living under the revolting Section 28 of Margaret Thatcher’s government, which prohibited the promotion of homosexuality. Back then, living my cis lesbian life in the UK would have been questioned and persecuted.

Now, we are lucky to have made real progress in battling homophobia, and we need to ensure that progress passes down to our trans friends.

Lesbian rights are not under attack by the trans movement.
Transphobia has no place in feminism and no place in the LGBT community.

It is not a competition about who is having the most horrible time. There’s not a finite amount of equality.

Yes, the dominance of the patriarchy is alive and well, and misogyny is exhausting.

But it is not mutually exclusive to recognise that society as a whole is patriarchal and women are more likely to be killed by a partner, earn less, and find it difficult to go back to work after having a baby, and that people get to decide their gender identity.

Let’s also not confuse cismen with transwomen. The lived experience is entirely different, whether or not you respect their gender identity.
So many people have a complete disconnect with the lived experience of a trans person, and they don’t take time to consider this before casting judgment.

We need to stop perpetuating hypothetical fears not based in reality. The distortion and the hyperbole is destructive. The conversation has to mature.

How about we move the discussion to supporting trans people. Let’s ensure the Gender Recognition Act and Equality Act is fit for purpose. Let’s ban conversion therapy.

"Let’s instil a supportive framework within the LGBT community that encourages a person’s right to choose to express their gender identity."

The in-fighting needs to stop, let’s work with trans people to protect their right to a life of self-definition, safety and peace.

Maryann Wright is the Founder of Sappho Events, producing safe, sober and social events for LGBT women and non-binary people. www.sapphoevents.co.uk

Two questions.

In the UK what rights do the Trans community not have that others do?

Secondly, what is the definition of conversion therapy?

Where in the EA2010 does is the bit that 'protect trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces' ?

That's a lot of words to tell women to shut up about our rights.

And no, we are not the baddies.

Oh god what a depressing read. It's all so wrong I don't even know where to start. What bloody rights have trans people not been granted in the UK? The right to do whatever they bloody like whenever they want to by the sounds of it.

Let’s also not confuse cismen with transwomen. The lived experience is entirely different, whether or not you respect their gender identity.
So many people have a complete disconnect with the lived experience of a trans person, and they don’t take time to consider this before casting judgment.

But the 'lived experience of a transwoman' is not the same as the 'lived experience of a woman' either. Of course people have a disconnect with what it is like to go about life as anyone other than themself. I can no more understand what it is like to be trans, than a TW can understand what it is to be a woman. Each of us has our own unique experience.

I'm shocked you read the Daily Express.

Almost 50 percent of transgender people have experienced a hate crime because of their gender identity in the last 12 months

What constitutes a hate crime in this statistic? Just interested to drill down into the stats. Is transphobic hate crime differentiated in this assessment from eg misogynistic hate crime experienced by all women?

Hogwash.

Safeguarding. It's about putting in obstacles to predatory behaviour and abusive people.

Asking for special arrangements to allow access to vulnerable people or to allow vulnerable people to practice dangerous things is a red flag.

Safe people don't undermine safeguarding. Safe guarding keeps vulnerable people- INCLUDING youngsters with gender dysphoria or those questioning their sexuality- safe.

Lesbian rights are not under attack by the trans movement.... It is not a competition about who is having the most horrible time. There’s not a finite amount of equality.

But claimed "rights" can indeed conflict, and certainly there is a limit to everything getting worked out with everyone perfectly happy at the end.

If you want to say that women's rights aren't under attack, then you can only say that if you assume that the "women's rights" side is making all false claims; and you decide everything in favour of trans-activists.

So as rhetoric, this is just biased or begging the question.

Well if Maryann Wright from the Daily Express says so, I guess it must be so.

Love this bit:
The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology .

Except is tragic that someone can believe / write that .

what a load of wankspannery

if the definition of women includes men then we cannot "focus on real changes for women and girls that improve all our lives" because there are no changes for women and girls just changes for people

im so bored of having to point out that men no matter how they present are not women

That’s a great article.

Let's focus on real changes for women and girls that improve all our lives.

What's a woman then?

@persistentwoman

Love this bit: The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology .

Except is tragic that someone can believe / write that .

I just couldn't find the words to respond to that bit.

So back to the feels, but many women don't feel like a woman we just are, I have no idea who am I anymore.

Here's what I find ludicrous: a women's rights movement focusing on men.

@NancyDrawed

*Let’s also not confuse cismen with transwomen. The lived experience is entirely different, whether or not you respect their gender identity. So many people have a complete disconnect with the lived experience of a trans person, and they don’t take time to consider this before casting judgment.*

But the 'lived experience of a transwoman' is not the same as the 'lived experience of a woman' either. Of course people have a disconnect with what it is like to go about life as anyone other than themself. I can no more understand what it is like to be trans, than a TW can understand what it is to be a woman. Each of us has our own unique experience.

Nobody is saying that tw and cw have the same lived experiences either! Just as gay women’s experiences differ from straight women, and disabled women’s experiences differ from able bodied women, etc etc

As I understand it those resignations were just a political performance. Their current tenure as members of the board were coming to an end anyway.

As for the rest of the article, it's just genderwang from start to finish.

But the 'lived experience of a transwoman' is not the same as the 'lived experience of a woman' either.

But we are told to say that it is. That it is just another woman’s experience. While this may be or may not be fine socially, it is not relevant for laws surrounding the safeguarding of women and children or to counter sexist discrimination of the past millennia.

OP. In what way should a late transitioning male be able to access the female only panels and roles needed for a) ensuring female’s needs are considered fully for policies etc and b) ensuring female’s are encouraged to participate after years of sexist discrimination?

Or is this not a big enough issue for you? You don’t see that a late or newly transitioned male in a women’s officer role supposedly representing females needs and actively involved in setting policy at that organisation is an issue? For instance, the Green Party recently? Not an issue? Females adequately represented?

And any comment on how sports fit into this?

What bloody rights have trans people not been granted in the UK?

Back in the day when this subboard was first created, lots of visiting MRAs would appear asking ‘why do you need feminism? What rights do women not have that men do?’

The right to not be discriminated against in law, and the reality of moving through society without experiencing discrimination are two different things, as every feminist knows. Or are you lost?

MishyJDI, seems strange that you would start another trans thread, given that you think there's too much focus on this subject already on this board.

“ But the 'lived experience of a transwoman' is not the same as the 'lived experience of a woman' either.

But we are told to say that it is.”

Where? By whom? Women do not share one common experience of womanhood, however that is defined.

We hardly get any MRAs visiting here these days. Just TRAs. I wonder where all the MRAs went?

Genderist ideology is the biggest threat to the sex based rights of women and girls that I've seen in my 50+ years on this planet.

I don't give a tiny shiny what some "young people" think if what they think is based on having been indoctrinated by science and material reality denying arsewash pushed by lobbyists, misogynists and others with questionable agendas.

I'll take a mad wild guess that most of them will wake up to this nonsense as they experience a bit more of the world and think a bit further than "be kind".

Meanwhile the grown ups will treat the daily tedium of being cajoled into accepting their own erasure with the contempt it deserves.

How about we move the discussion to supporting trans people.

If from the beginning there hadn't been #nodebate, if women hadn't been told to die in a grease fire, or been told to watch their erasure, then a discussion could have been had. The TRA's have stopped the discussions, go after them (Inc Stonewall) and let the adults do the talking.