Am I being dramatic?

[talkingdeadscot]

DH and I have been having various discussions around the trans issue and what it means for the rights of women and girls. He's TWAW and I'm fiercely feminist.

He's actively campaigning for the removal of single sex spaces as per Stonewall. I'm a woman who wants to keep those spaces. He believes gender is more important than sex so in the long run single sex spaces are better for everyone.

For me, I've said why this isn't better for women, I've said I don't want to lose single sex provision but it makes no difference. He says we both have an ideology we believe in and neither of us will change their mind.I feel as though this is just another case of a man telling a woman what's best so in that regards it's no different to men denying women contraception or abortion. He says I'm being ridiculous and over dramatic, it's nothing like the same. Besides, plenty of women are happy without single sex spaces.

Am I being ridiculous or over dramatic?

Is he used to telling you what boundaries you're allowed OP?

Nothing like a bit of privilege splaining from a man being asked to give up literally nothing

Not over dramatic at all! It is all very well that he has his own views but it isn't him giving anything up is it?

Ask him, very bluntly, just how true TWAW is. Would he fuck one?

If not, why not?

And then ask him why it is OK for him to say hell no, not in my bed, but women cannot make the same choice for themselves?

Don't be polite about it. He needs to see what it is he is really saying!

No you are not OP. Personally I couldn’t remain with a man with those views and so reluctant to hear an actual woman’s perspective on it.
Do you have children? Specifically daughters? Has he considered the impact on them?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Ask him, very bluntly, just how true TWAW is. Would he fuck one?

If not, why not?

And then ask him why it is OK for him to say hell no, not in my bed, but women cannot make the same choice for themselves?

Don't be polite about it. He needs to see what it is he is really saying!

This is a good point!

Ask him that! Am sure he will have 'boundaries' and so can you.

No you are not being dramatic. He's a man, privileging the desires of men over the legal rights of women. Does he also believe in the sterilization of young girls? Because that's what these groups support. How does he feel about millionaire white men taking sports prizes which would otherwise be won by poor women of colour?

I'm assuming here that you want to stay married to your DH ...

In which case, I think you can't expect to convert him to your point of view all in one go with one killer argument. It might be better to strategically tone down the argument, leave aside the things you disagree on and focus on the things you do agree on. So how can we make things safe and fair for everyone?

When you start from agreeing that things should be fair, then you can consider how sports should be categorised etc. But start gently and give him time to think ...

No you aren't. If you want to get dramatic you could accuse him of transphobia for not wanting to share his spaces with GNC or cross dressing men.

He does not get to tell you where your boundaries are. How are you going to move forwards after this, now he has shown he doesn't see you as a fully autonomous human?

Ask him how Muslim and other religious women fit into his brave new world.

Sounds like he is the one being dramatic (and an ignorant selfish twonk to boot).

TWAW is an ideology being gender critical is not, it is resisting an incoming ideology.

The ideology accusation was just another one of our arguements that got co-opted and inverted.

You could argue secular liberalism or feminism are an ideology, but you can't argue that acknowledging sex based differences and wanting sex segregated services to remain are an ideology.

Yes, as others have said, does that mean he'd have sex with a TW who hadn't had any operations?

I can understand men backing up women's rights to a single sex space. I can understand TW who want to share those spaces. I can't understand a man who isn't trans who thinks women shouldn't have single sex spaces.

Do you have children together?

If he’s actively campaigning then this goes beyond an ideological difference.

I could be misremembering, but OP didn’t you have a similar thread before and you’d asked your husband whether he’d ever have a relationship with a transwoman and he said he found some attractive?

Not sure how your husband and Stonewall can make the argument that same-sex spaces are bigotry but same-gender spaces aren’t. What is his rationale for segregation on the basis of gender? It will be pretty easy to refute.

When a man tells you who he is, believe him.

Do you have children with this gynophobe?

Without being dramatic - he’s be out. What skin does he even have in this game?

Ask him why he's so very invested in deciding that other biological males should share women's spaces even when women say they don't consent to it, and why he feels it's appropriate for him to have a say on it, as he presumably recognises his own male privilege being so involved in social justice issues?

I think I could just about reconcile a difference of opinion with my DH on this... But you say your DH is actively campaigning for the removal of single sex spaces.

Again, I could get on board and would join in with my DH actively campaigning for third spaces, but him actively campaigning to remove my safe spaces would probably be the death knell for my marriage tbh, and I'm not being dramatic when I say that.

Btw, my husband was vaguely TWAW without really thinking about what that meant, when I asked him if he'd perform oral sex on a woman's penis he then decided what a woman was and wasn't.

Without being dramatic - he’s be out. What skin does he even have in this game?

He's a male, and can empathise with oppressed males in a way he somehow cannot with oppressed females.

Why is he actively campaigning to remove single sex spaces? I know many men who don't like mixed sex toilets either. He sounds like he doesn't respect you or women generally, and is playing with your head.

There’s a visual that I see on twitter - the one with a rogues gallery of chaos who have been very vocal in the removal of single wax provisions - then convicted of sex crimes. I’d flash that and innocently ask if these are the people he wants it side with?

Ask him what he's doing to make male spaces more welcoming to Trans men. Or is it a case of 'Men' and 'other'.

@IvyTwines

Why is he actively campaigning to remove single sex spaces? I know many men who don't like mixed sex toilets either. He sounds like he doesn't respect you or women generally, and is playing with your head.

Is he campaigning to remove all single-sex spaces or only those for women?

Besides, plenty of women are happy without single sex spaces.

He can share with those women, then. Meanwhile, the ones who aren't happy need to retain their single-sex facilities.

My friend once had a partner who came home from work one day criticising a woman who had complained about the lack of single sex toilets (the women's had just become mixed sex and the men's remained single sex) which he dismissed as 'terfy bs', it was the beginning of the end of their relationship. She too felt she was being overreacting or being dramatic, but it undermined the relationship from that point on and she's far happier out of it.

I just couldn't have a sexual relationship with a man who likes pretending there is no difference between men and women.

@TheBuffster

Ask him how Muslim and other religious women fit into his brave new world.

He doesn't care about his wife's view why would you think he gives a shit about Muslim women?

OP I genuinely believe that some men subscribe to TWAW because its easier than acknowledging feminine males.

TW are valid and are entitled to security and safety within the workplace and socially etc but they are TW not women and recognising that is not hate

Come back OP! What do you think?