Am I being dramatic?

[talkingdeadscot]

DH and I have been having various discussions around the trans issue and what it means for the rights of women and girls. He's TWAW and I'm fiercely feminist.

He's actively campaigning for the removal of single sex spaces as per Stonewall. I'm a woman who wants to keep those spaces. He believes gender is more important than sex so in the long run single sex spaces are better for everyone.

For me, I've said why this isn't better for women, I've said I don't want to lose single sex provision but it makes no difference. He says we both have an ideology we believe in and neither of us will change their mind.I feel as though this is just another case of a man telling a woman what's best so in that regards it's no different to men denying women contraception or abortion. He says I'm being ridiculous and over dramatic, it's nothing like the same. Besides, plenty of women are happy without single sex spaces.

Am I being ridiculous or over dramatic?

@ValancyRedfern

I'm wondering if you'd benefit from getting in touch with the transwidows as it sounds like this might be the direction this is heading in.

I did think about this but don't want to intrude. I have been reading them though and I've been through worse than this so I think I'll be ok. Thanks

I remember your other thread OP. You mentioned then that he had been spending a lot of time with a friend who is Trans. You have also mentioned in this thread that he had said he is now Bisexual. Do you think there could be more (or he would like it to be more) to this friendship than first thought?

Just to clarify, trans people have had the right to use toilets and spaces according to their lived sex for the past several decades.

Legal not lived surely?

Just to clarify, trans people have had the right to use toilets and spaces according to their lived sex for the past several decades

Well if they're using the toilets and spaces according to their lived sex, because let's face it, there's no getting away from our lived sex, then we don't have a problem here do we. Unfortunately some people have been using the spaces that are not of their lived sex.

@yeahbutnaw

Just to clarify, trans people have had the right to use toilets and spaces according to their lived sex for the past several decades.

You mean legal sex and in the UK it was not possible to change this until 2004. To use the phrase 'several decades' for 17 years is misleading.

@yeahbutnaw

Just to clarify, trans people have had the right to use toilets and spaces according to their lived sex for the past several decades.

This is not true in the UK, the equality act has single sex exemptions as you know that allows trans people to be excluded, even those with a bloody GRC.

This is not true in the UK, the equality act has single sex exemptions as you know that allows trans people to be excluded, even those with a bloody GRC

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story...

@yeahbutnaw

Just to clarify, trans people have had the right to use toilets and spaces according to their lived sex for the past several decades.

What does this have to do with OPs husband ignoring her boundaries and dropping bombshells like confetti.

talkingdeadscot I remember your previous thread and I'm really sorry that things have gotten worse since then. I think preparing yourself for separation and more revelations to follow would be good self care for you right now.

@yeahbutnaw

Just to clarify, trans people have had the right to use toilets and spaces according to their lived sex for the past several decades.

can you point to the relevant legislation that states this please yeahbut?

If you are thinking of the Equality Act 2010 it very clearly does not allow people to self-identify into the facilities of the opposite sex. The protected characteristic of Gender reassignment protects from employment discrimination and bullying - it does not allow the person unfettered access to the spaces of the opposite sex.

If you are thinking about the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the requirement to 'live in the acquired gender' for 2 years - this question was never really dealt with - David Lammie brushed aside all concerns and objections to this point and seemed convinced that this was only relating to a maximum of 5000 people in the country.

It was never fully addressed and so that, along with the deliberate lies propagated to this day (Nancy Kelley yesterday in fact by Stonewall et al has led to a misconception. But it is only a misconception and all male people can be excluded from many female only spaces such as changing rooms, toilets, female hospital wards, breastfeeding groups, women's rights groups etc etc.

fairplayforwomen.com/equality-act-2010_womens-rights/

op I have huge sympathy for your situation - it does sound like this man does not have your best interests at heart - you deserve much better.

@yeahbutnaw

Just to clarify, trans people have had the right to use toilets and spaces according to their lived sex for the past several decades.

No! That is absolutely not true.

It is true that for many decades transwomen have used female facilities and women have not spoken out. But There is no law that entitles a transperson to use the loos of their 'chosen' sex.

In fact the EA2010 explicitly outlines how and why they can be exlcuded on the basis of actual sex.

No matter what Stonewall have taught you and many of our national organisations, what you state as fact is entirely incorrect!

And I now suspect you'll come back with "Oh, but if they have a GRC..." and we will discuss that too!

Ask him, very bluntly, just how true TWAW is. Would he fuck one?

Why on Earth would you consider how fuckable someone is to be the benchmark for what constitutes womanhood? Fucking hell, it’s bleak.

He says we both have an ideology we believe in and neither of us will change their mind.

He's right. They're irreconcilable positions, so the obvious answer is to provide additional spaces and meet all needs. Otherwise you're merely valuing the needs of male people for mixed sex spaces over the needs of female people who need single sex spaces. Both can exist just fine. Kindness, respect, inclusion, diversity, we dance, we sing, we go home happy.

I don't get anyone who just wants women to lose single sex provisions and suffer and shut up, and yet still talks about inclusion as if it's a value they believe in. It's fundamentally sexist and oppressive. They just believe male people matter more than female ones.

What does he plan to do with the women (tax payers) who can no longer access any spaces at all if they're mixed sex?

How many women is he seeing as collateral damage to exclude from society to give male people the freedom of all the choices?

Should women still continue to pay tax if they're excluded from society?

Why is he a fan of compelled belief and speech? Where in history has that ever ended somewhere nice and happy and good for a society?

And no I don't think you're being dramatic. I think myself that anyone who believes that some women must suffer for people born male to be happier, who sees only binary solutions instead of thinking of all needs, and who uses words like inclusion and kindness when they mean 'exclude and don't care about anyone not like me' is fundamentally not a very nice person.

@CreosoteQueen

Ask him, very bluntly, just how true TWAW is. Would he fuck one?

Why on Earth would you consider how fuckable someone is to be the benchmark for what constitutes womanhood? Fucking hell, it’s bleak.

For obvious reasons @CreosoteQueen which is why I worded the first part as I did.

To read that as you did is weird! Truly weird!

But yes, it is bleak! Truly fucking bleak for all women - adult, human females (just in case).

He says we both have an ideology we believe in and neither of us will change their mind.

Except your POV can be rationally explained and his can't. His is ideology, yours is basic reality and common sense.

Not an individual person, CreosoteQueen. Any MTF trans person. If he wouldn't, because he considers himself straight, he should see the issue with TWAW and insisting that regardless of how women feel, this group of male people can use their spaces.

You are quite right Erish I should have explained and not just tutted!

CreosoteQueen I was making reference to the mantra TWAW rather than any specific woman, or transwoman. The point being that as a presumably straight man he has no skin in the game until he is asked to be intimate with a transwoman. At that point woudl he still believe in the mantra TWAW? Or would he believe his own eyes and know that TWAM? Given the vast majority of transwomen have intact male genitalia!

I won't apologise for not having phrased it nicely the first time round, the point was fully intended to be made crudely!

Change your name to Dave, identify as a man and buy a strap on.... bet he’ll get it then!

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Not an individual person, CreosoteQueen. Any MTF trans person. If he wouldn't, because he considers himself straight, he should see the issue with TWAW and insisting that regardless of how women feel, this group of male people can use their spaces.

No, he's decided he's bi after 11 years together. I know what this means in reality and I've already ended our relationship.

You know you said earlier you wouldn't bother the Trans Widows? Would you at least reassure us that you'll pop in and have a chat if/when the seemingly inevitable happens?

I am sure they'll be happy(?!?!) to help.

@DialSquare

I remember your other thread OP. You mentioned then that he had been spending a lot of time with a friend who is Trans. You have also mentioned in this thread that he had said he is now Bisexual. Do you think there could be more (or he would like it to be more) to this friendship than first thought?

Yeah, he has a new friend who's a TRA but not trans himself but I don't think there's anything going on as he's young enough to be DH's son. I'm not kidding myself though, it maybe he wants something else now.

Even if he doesn't, the issue for me is that he's decided that what's best for women is to have our single sex spaces removed and that's unforgivable in my eyes.

@Rockinmomma

Change your name to Dave, identify as a man and buy a strap on.... bet he’ll get it then!

Once again, not removed. Trans people are legally permitted to use spaces according to their gender identity.

There are very few exceptions to this.

You're not "protecting women's spaces". You're campaigning to remove rights that trans people have today.