Am I being dramatic?

[talkingdeadscot]

DH and I have been having various discussions around the trans issue and what it means for the rights of women and girls. He's TWAW and I'm fiercely feminist.

He's actively campaigning for the removal of single sex spaces as per Stonewall. I'm a woman who wants to keep those spaces. He believes gender is more important than sex so in the long run single sex spaces are better for everyone.

For me, I've said why this isn't better for women, I've said I don't want to lose single sex provision but it makes no difference. He says we both have an ideology we believe in and neither of us will change their mind.I feel as though this is just another case of a man telling a woman what's best so in that regards it's no different to men denying women contraception or abortion. He says I'm being ridiculous and over dramatic, it's nothing like the same. Besides, plenty of women are happy without single sex spaces.

Am I being ridiculous or over dramatic?

Hope OP that you're feeling a bit more reassured about your reaction? There's no joy in sharing your life with a man who disrespects women's rights to boundaries regardless of our stage in life. Just take a look at the Relationships board.

@yeahbutnaw

Once again, not removed. Trans people are legally permitted to use spaces according to their gender identity.

There are very few exceptions to this.

You're not "protecting women's spaces". You're campaigning to remove rights that trans people have today.

Once again, not true! Not in the UK!

Not at all, ever!

No matter how much you want to believe Stonewall's interpretation of the law!

Gender Identity is nothing in law!

Sex is
Gender reassignment is

And there is a specific part of that law that deals with all the times single sex spaces can be upheld, exclusions and all!

Not Gender or Gender Identity.

You really must try harder. This isn't the first time you have been told this!

Britain’s 2010 Equality Act protects trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces.

The law does provide for exclusions in exceptional circumstances.

The law does provide for exclusions in exceptional circumstances.

Indeed. And what do you think those exceptional circumstances might be?

I know what the exclusions aren't. In fact they clearly list examples of what they can't be:

"The exclusion can only be applied on an individual case-by-case basis and must not form part of a blanket policy for the treatment of transsexual people (Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7; Equality Act 2010, Schedule 23)"

Britain’s 2010 Equality Act protects trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces.

Those who are undergoing or who have had gender reassignment. Not just anyone who identifies as trans. And it still does not give an automatic right to single sex spaces. Don't be misleading now.

@yeahbutnaw

Britain’s 2010 Equality Act protects trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces.

The law does provide for exclusions in exceptional circumstances.

So, maybe use the correct terminology, so we kow what you are talking about and then tell us what you think those exceptional circumstances might be!

@yeahbutnaw

I know what the exclusions aren't. In fact they clearly list examples of what they can't be:

"The exclusion can only be applied on an individual case-by-case basis and must not form part of a blanket policy for the treatment of transsexual people (Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7; Equality Act 2010, Schedule 23)"

But what COULD THEY INCLUDE?

Why on Earth would you consider how fuckable someone is to be the benchmark for what constitutes womanhood? Fucking hell, it’s bleak.

Women don't think like this, but men do. It's usually the thing that they will finally concede on, that no....they wouldn't have sex with a TW.

@Erkrie

Britain’s 2010 Equality Act protects trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces.

Those who are undergoing or who have had gender reassignment. Not just anyone who identifies as trans. And it still does not give an automatic right to single sex spaces. Don't be misleading now.

"A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex."

"The exclusion can only be applied on an individual case-by-case basis and must not form part of a blanket policy for the treatment of transsexual people (Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7; Equality Act 2010, Schedule 23)

So, for example, a women's refuge can be a single sex service. This is a case by case basis. Not an individual by individual basis.

I'm just saying, be honest.

If you want to remove rights that trans people have today - say it. It's not about "preserving single-sex spaces". No space is currently "single-sex" in the way you mean it (genitals at birth)

@Erkrie

"The exclusion can only be applied on an individual case-by-case basis and must not form part of a blanket policy for the treatment of transsexual people (Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7; Equality Act 2010, Schedule 23)

So, for example, a women's refuge can be a single sex service. This is a case by case basis. Not an individual by individual basis.

No. That's not what case-by-case means. That would be a "blanket policy", which is explicitly mentioned as discriminatory.

I wouldn't be with someone who's morals and values were so far removed from my own. Simple as that.

yeahbutnaw
Maybe start your own thread rather than hijacking one where a woman is asking for support about her marital issues? It seems rather disrespectful.

No. That's not what case-by-case means. That would be a "blanket policy", which is explicitly mentioned as discriminatory

Yes. A single sex service can do exactly that.

@yeahbutnaw
The guidance issued by the UK government doesn't say in exceptional circumstances

(Unless you're indulging in sophistry and conflating exceptions with the much stronger exceptional)

It says:
very particular and limited circumstances

And lists these circumstances as:

Some competitive sport.
The provision of separate and single sex services.
Religious marriage services.
Insurance contracts.
Communal accommodation.

Got to love the insurance contracts
Them actuaries know there's no such thing as gender identity if it means they'll lose money

"The exclusion can only be applied on an individual case-by-case basis and must not form part of a blanket policy for the treatment of transsexual people (Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7; Equality Act 2010, Schedule 23) Yes, case by case, not person by person!

So a Rape Crisis centre can say no.

If you demand that we shoud be honest you have to be equally scrupulous!

Women are not fighting to take away anyone's rigts. They are fighting to retain their own!

Every example you have tried to give has been shown to be false. So why would anyone believe anything you have to say on the matter?

No space is currently "single-sex" in the way you mean it (genitals at birth) Like that! Not true!

@BaseDrops

So he’s actively campaigning snd has recently become bisexual. And is telling his wife she is akin to a racist for wanting to only have female sex medical practitioners for intimate exams.

I wouldn’t be having unprotected sex with him. I wonder what the next reveal will be. Sorry OP he sucks. Throw the whole man away.

Yeah this! We’re all saying “he has no skin in the game” but maybe he does. Sounds like he wants to either BE or be with a TW, in which case you’re best off out of it.

I know it’s hard having to uproot yourself again after thinking you were settled with him, but I’d rather be alone than with a TRA!

@talkingdeadscot my apologies. I think we got side tracked by a similar poster on your last thread.

Again, my apologies!

Thus there are refuges that do not accept transwomen in the UK. For exactly that reason.

@persistentwoman

yeahbutnaw Maybe start your own thread rather than hijacking one where a woman is asking for support about her marital issues? It seems rather disrespectful.

I agree.

"The exclusion can only be applied on an individual case-by-case basis and must not form part of a blanket policy for the treatment of transsexual people (Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7; Equality Act 2010, Schedule 23)"

on a case by case basis ie. ALL female only hospital wards, ALL female only toilets. ALL female only changing rooms - you get the picture...

btw, the text below is Schedule 3 Part 7 - which bit of this are you referring to? It doesn't mention discrimination based on Sex at all? Have you referenced the wrong section?

7.In its application to an education authority, section 29, so far as relating to age discrimination or religious or belief-related discrimination, does not apply to—

(a)the exercise of the authority's functions under section 17 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 (provision of schools);

(b)the exercise of its functions under section 1 of that Act, section 2 of the Standards in Scotland's Schools etc. Act 2000 (asp 6) or section 4 or 5 of the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004 (asp 4) (general responsibility for education) in so far as it relates to a matter specified in paragraph (a);

(c)the exercise of its functions under subsection (1) of section 50 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 (education of pupils in exceptional circumstances) in so far as it consists of making arrangements of the description referred to in subsection (2) of that section.

@yeahbutnaw

Once again, not removed. Trans people are legally permitted to use spaces according to their gender identity.

There are very few exceptions to this.

You're not "protecting women's spaces". You're campaigning to remove rights that trans people have today.

If that's the case then yes, I would campaign to remove that from them. They shouldn't have the right to female spaces.

Prisons, refuges, certain team and competitive sports, toilets, changing rooms and showers. These areas should be sex segregated and if we've taken a step too far and allow people of the opposite sex into any of these spaces then I will march to the ends of the Earth to remove that from them.

They can march for a third space and I would support that.

@persistentwoman

yeahbutnaw Maybe start your own thread rather than hijacking one where a woman is asking for support about her marital issues? It seems rather disrespectful.

Yes Sorry OP, it's easy to be distracted by bad faith arguments

@talkingdeadscot