FPFW: ONS concede defeat!

[PandorasMailbox]

"We did it. We won. ONS have conceded defeat and will pay our legal costs.The High Court has now sealed the court order that sex in census cannot be self-identified.

Please share the news!"

fairplayforwomen.com/fair-play-for-women-wins-high-court-challenge-against-ons-census/?fbclid=IwAR0tJbErXe1wtBvuwZeNfyqs71OGlGvXQIoERD5FeBGyzoWmCz7DpkbXlT0

Fantastic news

Thank you Thank you Thank you FPFW, and thank you to the magnificent, sane, brave, noble flippin fantastic Judge who refused to countenence double think and newspeak. Data matters, only people who fear the truth try to stifle data.

@PurpleHoodie

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47369498

Well, well, well.

Guess what?

Always, always the case.

Excellent news!

Will the Census still have the question that presumes everyone is a believer of 'gender identity'?

Judge presiding was Mr Justice Swift

(some auspicious nominative determinism right there!)

and the very capable barrister Jason Coppel QC

@PurpleHoodie

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47369498

Well, well, well.

Guess what?

Well, well indeed.

Quoting the judge: gender balance was "not properly understood" by the ONS.

Funny, that, isn't it?

@AnyOldPrion

Will there be a judgement? I thought this hadn't gone to full JR (that would have been Thursday). Have the ONS backed down because they don't want a full JR? Whatever, it does mean that these organisations are going to have to look very carefully at unreliable advice giving way to unsafe actions

I wondered this too. More specifically that I had hoped the final judgment would go further and specify that sex means sex and not legal gender from a GRC.

I am, of course, delighted that FPFW won. But if the definition of sex has now officially changed to include the legal fiction of GRC, then it becomes essential that self-ID never comes to pass.

Otherwise the work done here will need to be done again, and at that point will be much more difficult as the precedent will be set.

I am slightly worried that the ONS has done this in order to cement the compromise position and not risk the possibility of being forced to record sex wholly accurately.

The case was based on, and won on, the Census Act 1920 and the Census Order 2020. It wasn't about the merits of recording biological sex vs "legal" sex, only what the ONS was directed and permitted to do by law. The GRA was referenced in court as it states that a person with a GRC becomes that other sex for all purposes. So that part was a given. Neither party really had the option to argue otherwise - that's why the ONS had to cave. I think that means that the definition of sex in UK law has been birth certificate or GRC ever since the GRA was enacted. It is important though to find other ways to re-establish biological sex in recording, e.g. crime data. At least this sends out a message that they won't keep getting away with StonewallLaw and self-identification.

@McDuffy

What wider impact do you all expect this to have across government?

I completed the VAWG Home Office survey yesterday and told them to start by getting Stonewall out as they're giving Departments incorrect guidance!

Me too!

@AdHominemNonSequitur

Judge presiding was Mr Justice Swift

(some auspicious nominative determinism right there!)

and the very capable barrister Jason Coppel QC

It is the best name for a judge I've ever heard.

That ONS case linked above is absolutely shocking, it was a blatant case of sex discrimination.

@AnyOldPrion

Will there be a judgement? I thought this hadn't gone to full JR (that would have been Thursday). Have the ONS backed down because they don't want a full JR? Whatever, it does mean that these organisations are going to have to look very carefully at unreliable advice giving way to unsafe actions

I wondered this too. More specifically that I had hoped the final judgment would go further and specify that sex means sex and not legal gender from a GRC.

I am, of course, delighted that FPFW won. But if the definition of sex has now officially changed to include the legal fiction of GRC, then it becomes essential that self-ID never comes to pass.

Otherwise the work done here will need to be done again, and at that point will be much more difficult as the precedent will be set.

I am slightly worried that the ONS has done this in order to cement the compromise position and not risk the possibility of being forced to record sex wholly accurately.

I had the same thought.

Well done Ni and team!

Nic

I am thrilled you have won, it is a very important win. Congratulations to Fairplay and all involved and a big thank you.

Fantastic news! I ordered my census paper copy yesterday and will still fill this in and write a letter about using my biological sex.
Yay to FPFW they are amazing!

I've just posted our paper copy and letter back to them today.

Wonderful news!

Will the Census still have the question that presumes everyone is a believer of 'gender identity'?

That question is still there, but nonbelievers can skip it - it's optional.

PHEW... but also rather sad that they aren't going to argue their weak case in court.

GLAD that my monies now go to other FPFW campaigns and initiatives - they need all the money they can get and Nic Williams is a true Shero

Truly a DAVID AND GOLIATH contest..... though surely there must be two female protagonists I could chose instead?

It feels very damp squib that we have won (important) but that there was no judgement on ONS having to publicise what needed to be done now - nor, as I hoped, withdrawing earlier forms filled in (A LOT!!)... so under the radar ... Is there any chance a serious newspaper might do an expose of this? The institutional capture is extraordinary

Well done !

Unsurprisingly not being covered by the BBC. At least the government are thinking about a media strategy (although not much else). By pulling out now the story is relatively dead for those media outlets which covered the interlocutory stage as "been there, done that" and won't be picked up by media outlets that were waiting on something substantive and final.

@PurpleHoodie

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47369498

Well, well, well.

Guess what?

So the ONS knows what sex is when they fancy dabbling in unlawful discrimination, it seems.

Will the Census still have the question that presumes everyone is a believer of 'gender identity'?

I heard an interesting snippet on Radio 4 the other day where someone from (I think) the Atheist Society was unhappy with the religion question.

He said asking the question 'What is your religion?' even when the first option given is 'no religion' results in more people giving a religion than if the question is 'Do you have a religion?'

They had campaigned for the ONS to change the question, and the campaign resulted in the 'no religion' option being put at the top of the options.

If it does get changed (in 10 years time) then I would be strongly in favour of a change to the gender identity question at the same time.

In fact, I think the questions should be:

What is your sex at birth? and 'Do you have a gender identity different to your birth sex?'

Thus people who identify as cis, and people who do not have a gender identity, would both tick no to that question.

@WeRoarSometimes

Apologies to piggyback on this thread, I know it's cheeky but there are so many posters here. The Women's Aid petition still needs thousands of more signatures so that it can solicit a response from the government.

If any of you could sign it and share with any of the women you know, I'd be so grateful.

I can't post the direct link but the title of the petition is:
Require local authorities to fund specific domestic abuse services for women

I'll delete this post if it bothers any of you.

Thanks for posting. Signed and shared.

Seems the ONS doesn't like women too much - who'd a thought (referring to the employment tribunal upthread in Wales)

Hi everyone - Nicola Williams from Fair Play For Women here. Thank you for all your lovely comments and your support. I know many of you here will have donated to our legal crowdfunder. So thank you!

Here's a peek behind the scenes at ONS showing how Stonewall squashed stakeholder debate and who supported them.

fairplayforwomen.com/whos-behind-the-government-losing-sight-of-reality/

FANTASTIC
Congratulations!!!!!!
This is such an important win!!!