Reclaim These Streets have been captured.

[stumbledin]

It was inevitable of course. Whatever the original intentions of the local women who set up the facebook event page, given the huge response they have had, it was just to tempting for those who always want to be in control not to take over.

So now there is a Reclaim These Streets facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/282187170119807/ which of course loads of women have joined. And although it is meant to be about sharing your experiences, your ideas, your whatever, turns out the group admins will not let your voice be heard if you dont express yourself in an approved way.

No need to detail what that is, but once again the vanguard of well schooled stonewall students are definitely in charge.

And of course this also applies to the now in excess of half a million pounds raisde for women's projects. It has been decreed - by knee jerk tweet that only trans inclusive groups will get women.

Tough luck on those providing women only services as legally allowed under the EA. So rape crisis helplines, women refuges, many BME groups will be deemed not worthy of financial support.

How come there are never enough mumsnetters out and about on facebook or wherever to capture groups?

I was thinking about that "terfs" sign and how out of place it was.

One reason will have been so they can push their own agenda. Totally inappropriate and disgusting.

And those they deem terfs don't murder women or transwomen.

However those they deem terfs are likely to be feminists and therefore likely to attend a vigil for a murderer woman.

So it can only have been put there as a warning to those they deem to be terfs. To make them feel unwelcome and uncomfortable.

At a vigil for a murdered woman.

Maybe because most women and feminists are trans inclusive? Mumsnet feminist chat is an echo chamber really, not real life.

It's much more representative of the average person's views than the TRA-adjacent filter bubble on Twitter etc is.

Maybe because most women and feminists are trans inclusive? Mumsnet feminist chat is an echo chamber really, not real life.

An echo chamber?
That’s interesting because what I see here is people being allowed to air their opinion/beliefs and in fact being asked to explain their beliefs more.

What I see elsewhere is anyone who doesn’t agree that TWAW 100% and that TW should be included in every female space completely is transphobic, their comments are deleted.

If you have a “nuanced view” then take time to explain that and go in to some of the nuance. Otherwise what was the point of engaging with the conversation.

I have been told repeatedly that science say biological sex doesn’t exist or that science doesn’t agree there are two destiny sexes. However when I ask people to please provide link to this science I’m not given link I’m just told to do the work myself and that I am transphobic.

Mumnets is given a lot of flack but it is the only place so far where I have actually seen people able to have a debate about TWAW without having their comments repeatedly deleted.

Most women in the U.K., as borne out in multiple polls, are happy for people to identify and express themselves as they like, but they think of "trans people" as old school transsexuals who have fully transitioned physically including surgery, and they don't want other males in women's spaces where they expect privacy and dignity. They also don't support legal sex self ID or males in women's sports.

If people think they do, and that TWAW is genuinely what most people think, in the same way they do, they need a wake up call.

Most people just don't think about it that much. They're not pro trans rights warriors, they think it's a minority issue which won't affect them. When they see the implications they tend to answer differently.

As we discuss this in depth on MN in a way few other places do, more women have come to see the issues and articulate their feelings and concerns.

Distinct not destiny

The lines up well with my experiences.

Your experience is your own bubble.

@Biscuitsanddoombar

Not as bad as the kids on twitter say

🤣🤣🤣🤣 I needed a laugh this morning. Biggest users of twitter are over 35. Kids are on tik tok.

And interestingly there are some quite vocal trans women on TikTok (I’m not a kid but joined it to be down with the kids) who don’t agree with TWAW and who agree that some spaces should be kept separate for biological/Cis women (or whatever way is being used to describe).

Like twitter isn't the biggest echo chamber around

Quite, SunsetBeech, and unlike Mumsnet you can block people so you don't have to read the opinions of people you don't approve of, and you can say yours are totally representative of the general population.

Maybe because most women and feminists are trans inclusive? Mumsnet feminist chat is an echo chamber really, not real life.

Like the Times website is, where people rarely agree with trans rights activists? There is some overlap but it's a different demographic.

These conversations would go a lot better if the TRA side just spat it out and said what they think.

Nuance and all - I think we could cope.

Indeed 7Days.

I’ve seen a woman in their safe space group talk about being raped by husband who decided he was a TW - and she was basically told that TWAW end of.
Absolutely abhorrent behaviour.

An echo chamber indeed 🤣

MN is the only place I've seen that welcomes debate, welcomes differences of opinion. There have been some grand old debates on here, unlike most social media where anyone with a GC viewpoint gets their posts deleted and booted off before you can say terf.

That the GC position of many on here haven't been swayed by the opposing view isn't our fault! Perhaps, dare I say it, come up with a better argument than mantras, emotional blackmail, gaslighting, and telling us we're all meanies

Perhaps, dare I say it, come up with a better argument than mantras, emotional blackmail, gaslighting, and telling us we're all meanies

Yes. On current evidence I conclude that is all they have. It should be possible to engage politely and reasonably in good faith if they did, but it seems this can't be managed?

Maybe because most women and feminists are trans inclusive?

But you don't really mean "trans-inclusive", do you, Disgusted? You mean only those trans voices that you personally agree with. So why don't the voices of the ones you disagree with, the ones who post here, the ones who are (ludicrously) banned from twitter for "transphobia" despite being transsexuals themselves, why don't they matter? Why don't you listen to them?

And just once, I'd like to see people like you argue for a feminism that was woman-inclusive. It's telling that you don't.

Bump

@MummBraTheEverLeaking I was aware of the feeling of that group anyway after one of them called women who don't follow the line "literal scum" and apologised when she accidently shared a photo that showed she owned some Harry Potter Books

It's just farcical! 🤷‍♀️🙈

nauticant that article www.queermajority.com/currents/tdor-trans-death-and-trans-life? is really interesting.

The UK has "fewer than one trans murder a year" according to the article quoted by @nauticant, from the trans person who took a lot of trouble to investigate the statistics. Compare with the number of women. Talking about muddying the waters isnt in it.

That's a great article, and quite brave and responsible of them to write it.

@flyingfoxkins

The UK has "fewer than one trans murder a year" according to the article quoted by *@nauticant*, from the trans person who took a lot of trouble to investigate the statistics. Compare with the number of women. Talking about muddying the waters isnt in it.

My MP assured me that trans women are in more danger than biological women. She said transphobic people seek to cover up the figures so we can’t see the full scale of transphobic attacks. I had to point out that people like her, who support people entering their ‘gender’ on forms rather than their sex, are responsible for this data loss 🙄 it’s excruciating.

What party is your mp wondermule?

@Manderleyagain

What party is your mp wondermule?

Labour