Reclaim These Streets have been captured.

[stumbledin]

It was inevitable of course. Whatever the original intentions of the local women who set up the facebook event page, given the huge response they have had, it was just to tempting for those who always want to be in control not to take over.

So now there is a Reclaim These Streets facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/282187170119807/ which of course loads of women have joined. And although it is meant to be about sharing your experiences, your ideas, your whatever, turns out the group admins will not let your voice be heard if you dont express yourself in an approved way.

No need to detail what that is, but once again the vanguard of well schooled stonewall students are definitely in charge.

And of course this also applies to the now in excess of half a million pounds raisde for women's projects. It has been decreed - by knee jerk tweet that only trans inclusive groups will get women.

Tough luck on those providing women only services as legally allowed under the EA. So rape crisis helplines, women refuges, many BME groups will be deemed not worthy of financial support.

How come there are never enough mumsnetters out and about on facebook or wherever to capture groups?

Well, I've changed my name for this.

But I just want to say something.

Yes, it feels very lonely.

But ...

We're clearly not, in fact, the line group of out-there extremists some posters would like us to believe we are.

Time and time again, I see social media posts telling GC feminists they are out of touch, that the future belongs to the TWAW ideology, refusing to countenance the problems with that position.

And, of course, we do see institutional capture, and consumer capture.

But ... what we see are captures of areas that are particularly vulnerable to social media pressure.

We also see the results of the initial Consercstive Party endorsement of gender self-recognition.

That lady was quite damaging.

But the Conservatives have pulled back.

Why?

Because, despite all claims by the TWAW, no argument, no platform group - the majority of the country is not with them.

Being GC is not, in fact, a statistically lonely position to be in.

And - in the secrecy of the ballot box - people just quietly vote against it.

And the Conservative Party know it.

And it pains me. Because I want a Labour government.

But we are so far from getting a Labour government, I wonder if I will still be around to see one.

And this is - in part - why.

And I suspect Keir Starmer knows this, too.

But, weirdly, despite all evidence to the contrary, the TWAW and anti-SWERF types continue in the delusion they are, in fact, a righteous majority.

They're not.

They bully and bully. And scared groups capitulate.

But in the secrecy of the ballot-box, the electorate says, 'No'.

Because you can't force an electorate to accept a position they really don't want.

You can try to persuade - but they don't do that.

They bully.

And the electorate says, 'No.'

And they will go on saying, 'No.'

Which is bloody depressing for all of us who would like something other than a Conservative government.

'"Whoever came up with the concept of woman," is a fun line of thinking to go down. You should look into that a little more.'

What on earth do you mean?

Took me a while to realise it was "Reclaim these streets" not "Reclaim the Streets".

Would have been more honest to use a different name (unless they are related?)

@Delphinium20

I'm glad OP you pointed out that the FB is a very white group, so it's easier for them to have luxury oppressions.

I wish intersectional feminism focused on what its original intent was to focus on - that being female AND Black (or from another class who experience oppression) is a double oppression and how there are unique issues based on your particular intersection as a woman. Because you are a woman PLUS another oppressed group. It seems now that intersection potentially involves every human on the planet.

YES

I am just wondering whether in fact I was right to say that the facebook group was set up by those who created the facebook event page. The event page is still open and I haven't seen on it any mention that they have set up a group to continue discussion.

If anyone has seen such a message can you post that info.

I am raising this because it is more thanpossible that an other group may have just coopted the name knowing that it will immediately get huge response.

In the meantime I am looking forward to Sisters Uncut whose trademark is letting off pink flares in publis will soon announce they have money for enough flares to be let off for the next decade!

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@NiceGerbil

'"Whoever came up with the concept of woman," is a fun line of thinking to go down. You should look into that a little more.'

What on earth do you mean?

Precisely what I said.

They really are luxury oppressions, and they are luxury beliefs. And many, many people sense this - and they avoid endorsing them when it comes to the ballot box.

It drives me mad - there's a brutal class politics here, masquerading itself in the name of fighting oppression.

But, in reality, it is imposing beliefs whose effects are actually grim for the least privileged. It's something that is said on MN a lot. What we are seeing is groups of privileged people - who feel they have not inherited their birthright - stamping down hard on those below them, whilst adopting the language of oppression.

When we talk about institutional capture, what we mean is that we are seeing privileged groups flexing their muscle, whilst using a language of inclusion.

What is the exclusion of women-only groups from a vast, gifted money-pot other than the divestment of funds away from the most marginalised and vulnerable groups, towards groups that actually create space for non-marginalised or faux-marginalised groups?

It's beyond mind-bending. It's very frustrating.

But people know.

And that is why, at the ballot-box, they keep voting to keep these people away from more power.

@NiceGerbil it's just one of those glib rhetorical tricks that people with no real substance to their positions use
Nonsense said with an knowing wink and a hint of great knowledge if only you had the wit to understand
But ever engage with any substantive point raised?

*will they buggery

Hmmm ok.

I would say that all/ most mammals know male female, adult/ juvenile male female.

I would be surprised if any language in the world didn't have a word for girl (juvenile female) and woman (adult female).

Humans would have known these concepts before speech, and when speech came then they would have been basics along with stuff like food, shelter, baby, mother etc.

I can't prove this obviously but I'd be pretty surprised if it's not the case.

Where do you think the word woman came from? You seem to imply that the concept of woman was created. I've shared my thoughts, what are yours?

But, in reality, it is imposing beliefs whose effects are actually grim for the least privileged. It's something that is said on MN a lot. What we are seeing is groups of privileged people - who feel they have not inherited their birthright - stamping down hard on those below them, whilst adopting the language of oppression.

When we talk about institutional capture, what we mean is that we are seeing privileged groups flexing their muscle, whilst using a language of inclusion.

What is the exclusion of women-only groups from a vast, gifted money-pot other than the divestment of funds away from the most marginalised and vulnerable groups, towards groups that actually create space for non-marginalised or faux-marginalised groups?

Yes, this is a great point. If these groups weren't privileged they wouldn't have been prioritised at the expense of other protected groups. Faux-marginalised is a good description.

"Whoever came up with the concept of woman," is a fun line of thinking to go down. You should look into that a little more.

Oh yes, of course it's totally nothing to do with the female sex. Males completely aren't looking at actual women when they think they "feel like a woman", it's just an essence which emerged out of nowhere and coincidentally applies to 99% of biological females.

If that poster replies I suspect it will be something about how lots of countries didn't know what a woman was before colonialism...?!

Not a position I've ever actually stated here, and my actual view is a little more nuanced than that, but... you're pretty close?

Awfully predictable, aren't you? Also, nuance is transphobic, who told you you could make up your own rules?

If that poster replies I suspect it will be something about how lots of countries didn't know what a woman was before colonialism...?!

I imagine that might be the direction this line of thought is going. Pretty sure all cultures know how babies are made.

The RTS FB is now full of posts which say, in effect, "in order to be INCLUSIVE and for ALL WOMEN we have thrown THESE WOMEN off this FB, and promise to put THESE MEN on the moderating team."

(Caps included.)

So that went well, then.

As for donations, I think the crowdfunder site is returning some donations themselves, rather than making you ask RTS direct, as RTS are pretty openly planning to spend the money on stuff they did not fundraise for. It's certainly worth asking.

@stumbledin

It was inevitable of course. Whatever the original intentions of the local women who set up the facebook event page, given the huge response they have had, it was just to tempting for those who always want to be in control not to take over.

So now there is a Reclaim These Streets facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/282187170119807/ which of course loads of women have joined. And although it is meant to be about sharing your experiences, your ideas, your whatever, turns out the group admins will not let your voice be heard if you dont express yourself in an approved way.

No need to detail what that is, but once again the vanguard of well schooled stonewall students are definitely in charge.

And of course this also applies to the now in excess of half a million pounds raisde for women's projects. It has been decreed - by knee jerk tweet that only trans inclusive groups will get women.

Tough luck on those providing women only services as legally allowed under the EA. So rape crisis helplines, women refuges, many BME groups will be deemed not worthy of financial support.

How come there are never enough mumsnetters out and about on facebook or wherever to capture groups?

Maybe because most women and feminists are trans inclusive? Mumsnet feminist chat is an echo chamber really, not real life.

Maybe because most women and feminists are trans inclusive? Mumsnet feminist chat is an echo chamber really, not real life.

The lines up well with my experiences.

I came here really not expecting it to be anywhere near as bad as the kids on twitter say...and the fact that I'm not sure if it is or isn't after being here a few days is rather worrying.

If you don't like an internet forum, you can leave it.

There's an element of choice there, unlike a lot of situations...

Maybe because most women and feminists are trans inclusive? Mumsnet feminist chat is an echo chamber really, not real life.

That's what people might tell you because they feel they have to, but in the real world of people who are not involved in mainstream / left wing campaigning groups, it is really not what people think, male or female. There is no one in my social or work circle (including women's charities), a mix of middle class and working class, left and right wing, male and female that really thinks TWAW / TMAM when you talk to them and they think about it in any depth.

@yourhairiswinterfire

There was a sign about TERFs somewhere wasn't there? Amongst the tributes.

At the vigil, yes. I hope to God Sarah's family don't look up 'terf' and see the vile abuse men send to women whilst using that slur.

Pretty sick to display it at a vigil for a woman who had just been killed.

That's just awful.

Not as bad as the kids on twitter say

🤣🤣🤣🤣 I needed a laugh this morning. Biggest users of twitter are over 35. Kids are on tik tok.