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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Emma Bateman, Co Chair of Green Party Women suspended for Querying Whether Transwomen are Female

198 replies

gardenbird48 · 16/03/2021 13:09

Emma Bateman
@EmmaBatemanGPW
On March 8th, International Women's Day, I was suspended from the Green Party following a complaint by 2 fellow GPW committee members

Because I queried whether trans women are female.
Green Party policy is that 'trans women are women'

Now we must agree that they are also female

I thought Emma had gone a bit quiet since the weekend where they voted down a motion to support sex based rights.

It turns out that Emma might have been forced to accept the language re. transwomen are women but queried whether they are actually female. They objected to that as well obviously.

I guess it was only a matter of time as Kathryn Bristow's stated focus from the start was to take down Emma (rather than actually do any for women).

OP posts:
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TabbyStar · 19/03/2021 19:55

I don't know whether I was just looking in the wrong place but I couldn't see any abusive replies there, funny that....

WarriorN · 19/03/2021 20:04

Yes funny that

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2021 20:16

Is it my imagination or did this thread get taken down for a bit?

WarriorN · 19/03/2021 20:36

Yes it did. Weird.

OhHolyJesus · 19/03/2021 20:36

It did Eresh for a few hours earlier today.

WarriorN · 19/03/2021 20:40

Apparently one of the co chairs of Green Party women's group has finally worked out their gender, genderfae if anyone is interested, which is just wonderful news for women's politics, isn't it?

BeReet · 19/03/2021 20:55

@ArabellaScott

I'm happy to go along with TWAW in law

If you go along with TWAW in law, then women's rights are over.

If males can be classed as women/females, then there is no possibility of protected single sex spaces, no exemptions, no rights to equity, no protected characteristic of 'sex', no nothing.

Everything, but everything, will be mixed sex, or gender neutral, if you prefer.

Some people think this is fine - they see no issue with all sex segregation being removed. It's important to be clear that if you accept TWAW, then this is what you are choosing. You can't have 'TWAW' and women's rights, the two things are mutually exclusive, by definition.

TWAW is the root of this whole problem.

It's sold as a 'nice' wee mantra that shows solidarity. If you look at it in the cold light of day, it means 'no women's rights'. It's as simple as that.

Absolutely agree, being nice has left nothing for us women. I do not believe TWAW and I do not want any males in female spaces.
toffeebutterpopcorn · 19/03/2021 20:58

Did I miss another law being passed or something?

Helleofabore · 19/03/2021 21:12

OhHolyJesus

Thanks for posting that letter. I am sure we will be all watching we anticipation to see what happens next. I hope more will start talking about it at the very least.

gardenbird48 · 19/03/2021 21:22

Which is sad because I believe most of us would be largely supportive of trans people in general, and would have supported third/ unisex spaces in public areas. But not at the cost of our rights and our needs.

this is exactly it - I don't think many of us had much issue with the tiny proportion of people who quietly got on with their business and wanted to present themselves to the world in a particular way. I used to work with a transwoman and all was fine (apart from the fact that she would never respond when I said hello when we passed in the corridor - people generally said hello in that org).

Many of the transsexuals (by their own term) we hear from these days are generally very supportive of womens rights to single sex spaces (and don't use them themselves) and in some cases are campaigning for women's spaces and against self-id.

Something big has been lost here - I remember hearing about the early attempts of women to have a conversation about the emerging conflict in rights/requirements between women and the new breed of people who were 'expanding the bandwidth of being a woman' while retaining penises and male outward presentation yet still feeling that they needed to access female single sex spaces.

Certain key players in this move were not distinguishable from any other male in their presentation so why do they need to use the ladies? No one would look twice at them in the men's.

I remember the conversations about third spaces which were rejected out of hand as 'othering'. In those days I didn't understand the concept of othering very well. In my mind people who are trans and not born of the same sex as me are not the same as me and never will be. So 'othering' seems like a redundant concept - it is a fact, not an action.

The conversation turned into violent protests of women's meetings and events (smoke bombs near Grenfell, pounding on windows and doors in Brighton at the time of the Labour Party Conference, violent gatherings outside meetings physically intimidating the women going in etc) - I was a bit mystified as to why women meeting up was causing such a problem.

The bit that concerns me most is the ease of 'capture' of so many organisations and public services including all government depts (although a small faction are fighting back), all main political parties, the police, the NHS, schools, BBC, most mainstream media, CPS, ONS, EHRC, google, Social Services, NSPCC, local councils etc etc.

These organisations are supposedly run by sensible grown ups but these people seem to have thrown safeguarding, logic, common sense and basic humanity to the wind and are buying Stonewall's false version of the law wholesale. Do none of these organisations have access to google to check the text of the EA 2010??

Do none of these people stop to ask themselves why they 'don't need to include most of the protected characteristics in the Equality Impact Assessment' on a policy which blatantly affects all of the pcs?

I could deal with the fact that an organisation like Stonewall is campaigning so hard for a change in the law that is detrimental to women but I can't understand how so many people in charge have fallen for the lies.

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ArabellaScott · 19/03/2021 21:43

I think people largely just haven't been paring attention, gardenbird. Haven't thought it all through. TWAW is sold as nice and sparkly and kind and a Good Thing so people wave it through. They think it's so vanishingly niche it won't have any noticeable consequences. Also misogyny is so soaked into the fabric of society that womens needs wants and rights genuinely are seen as unimportant or disposable or secondary to those of suffering males.

Like you and all reasonable people, I have zero issue of people living however they wish, so long as it harms none. I've spoken up to defend trans people in the past and would do so happily again. I just won't set women aside to appease an ideology I don't believe in.

gardenbird48 · 19/03/2021 22:32

@ArabellaScott

I think people largely just haven't been paring attention, gardenbird. Haven't thought it all through. TWAW is sold as nice and sparkly and kind and a Good Thing so people wave it through. They think it's so vanishingly niche it won't have any noticeable consequences. Also misogyny is so soaked into the fabric of society that womens needs wants and rights genuinely are seen as unimportant or disposable or secondary to those of suffering males.

Like you and all reasonable people, I have zero issue of people living however they wish, so long as it harms none. I've spoken up to defend trans people in the past and would do so happily again. I just won't set women aside to appease an ideology I don't believe in.

I think you're right Arabella although while I can understand the not paying attention and forming a casual position of vague acceptance, the wilful digging in on that position when presented with reams of evidence that contradicts that position and apparently refusing to listen to any shade or nuance is strange and concerning.

Most conversations about a conflict of rights used to be a conversation - now it just seems like a list of demands we must concede.

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MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 19/03/2021 23:07

Not only concede, but erase ourselves and fall over amidst a flutter of rose petals and palm leaves for men to walk over us. I was a member of the Green Party once, back in the days when it focused on the environment and its destruction in the name of the economy. Even in the last local elections I voted Green because they do make good local councillors and guardians for the local environment, however mad the central party is. No more. This madness has to be stopped.

Voice0fReason · 19/03/2021 23:34

The Green Party are science deniers. How ridiculous is that!
Complete joke of a party.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 19/03/2021 23:41

Maybe they are going to save the planet with wishes and magic?

WarriorN · 20/03/2021 06:40

Fairies too.

WarriorN · 20/03/2021 06:43

Steve is apparently quite well known and in Brighton, and has resigned (thread above somewhere.)

I just saw this tweet.

Emma Bateman, Co Chair of Green Party Women suspended for Querying Whether Transwomen are Female
WarriorN · 20/03/2021 06:44

So she's experienced the shit from the TRAs.

WarriorN · 20/03/2021 06:46

One thing I'm noticing is a lot of men in the GP are now speaking up. At least 3 high up / councillors have now resigned.

NecessaryScene1 · 20/03/2021 07:31

@WarriorN

Apparently one of the co chairs of Green Party women's group has finally worked out their gender, genderfae if anyone is interested, which is just wonderful news for women's politics, isn't it?
Interesting ploy from Emma. Might work.

.
.
.

(Joke fell flat on the other thread but I'm damned well going to try it again here!)

I can envisage Green Party Genderwang as a strategy game akin to Mornington Crescent - first person to name that as their gender wins.)

WarriorN · 20/03/2021 07:40
Grin
highame · 20/03/2021 08:08

TWAW is sold as nice and sparkly and kind and a Good Thing so people wave it through. and they change words frequently to try and head us off at the pass. Just thinking about the Women and Equalities committee the other day. Self-id has now become self declaration.

They are a cagey bunch of foxes and I think they are constantly in meetings, trying to perfect their next moves.

WarriorN · 20/03/2021 08:15

All these parties that prioritise gender identity over sex are highly offensive imo.

Woman and female is not a costume, a feeling, a fairy.

Woman is not cos play or anime.

AIMD · 20/03/2021 08:20

@WarriorN

All these parties that prioritise gender identity over sex are highly offensive imo.

Woman and female is not a costume, a feeling, a fairy.

Woman is not cos play or anime.

Yes and I don’t understand why we aren’t hearing TMAM? We aren’t hearing people referred to as prostate havers? Why only focus on trans in relation to trans women are women?
TheRabbitOfCaerbannog · 20/03/2021 08:42

This, from the screenshot you shared WarriorN, bears repeating

Emma Bateman, Co Chair of Green Party Women suspended for Querying Whether Transwomen are Female