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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Emma Bateman, Co Chair of Green Party Women suspended for Querying Whether Transwomen are Female

198 replies

gardenbird48 · 16/03/2021 13:09

Emma Bateman
@EmmaBatemanGPW
On March 8th, International Women's Day, I was suspended from the Green Party following a complaint by 2 fellow GPW committee members

Because I queried whether trans women are female.
Green Party policy is that 'trans women are women'

Now we must agree that they are also female

I thought Emma had gone a bit quiet since the weekend where they voted down a motion to support sex based rights.

It turns out that Emma might have been forced to accept the language re. transwomen are women but queried whether they are actually female. They objected to that as well obviously.

I guess it was only a matter of time as Kathryn Bristow's stated focus from the start was to take down Emma (rather than actually do any for women).

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Kendodd · 18/03/2021 17:28

Great news about Bridgewater Green party. I wonder if other branches and other parties will follow suit?

FindTheTruth · 18/03/2021 17:31

Is there a link to the Bridgewater thing?

WarriorN · 18/03/2021 17:38

I was sent the text of a letter so can't fully confirm it. I've searched for an official letter/ statement not found as yet.

WarriorN · 18/03/2021 18:23

I've been looking on Twitter and fb, can't see anything but then I really don't think many people working at grassroots level actually use twitter.

And yet a lot of the tras do.

The letter makes the point less than 1% of the members voted and so this wasn't a true representation of the GP's members' thoughts.

Tbh if you're not on SM / twitter, you don't know about all this shit.

FindTheTruth · 18/03/2021 18:27

That's interesting thanks Warrior. It's like Helen Staniland said, Women have been evicted from the town square (Twitter)

and who would want to enter a town square (Twitter) that kicks off the voice of reason and facts, whilst welcoming the TRAs with cartoons of guns kill the terfs aka women

WarriorN · 18/03/2021 18:51

Gosh absolutely.

WarriorN · 18/03/2021 18:55

I'm not posting the letter till I know it's official, but this really jumped out at me again (I did know this but much has happened since.)

"A motion proposing that the GP should support women's sex-based rights, in accordance with the United Nations CEDAW agreement (Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women) was voted down."

TheRabbitOfCaerbannog · 18/03/2021 19:05

"A motion proposing that the GP should support women's sex-based rights, in accordance with the United Nations CEDAW agreement (Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women) was voted down."

Just totally lost, aren't they

toffeebutterpopcorn · 18/03/2021 19:30

Can you imagine...
TheRabbitOfCaerbannog

"A motion proposing that the GP should support Xxxxxxx race/religion based rights, in accordance with the United Nations bla bla bla agreement (Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against yadda yadda) was voted down.”

What type of person votes against rights (now wants, rights)?

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 18/03/2021 19:52

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I can't believe this - I'm happy to go along with TWAW in law and society, that's fine, I don't care how people dress or what body modifications they do in order to make themselves feel happy. Well, as long as those people are adults.

But, what am I missing? In which was is someone with a gender issue able to switch sex?

Does this mean that the Green Party actually BELIEVES in something which is, erm not sciencey?

'I'm happy to go along with TWAW in law and society, that's fine'.....but why? Why are you happy to perpetuate a lie that you don't believe in? Why support a law based on something that is factually incorrect?

Saying someone is a woman when they are not is word salad that just confuses people.

I'm not trying to be goady, I just think this underlies so much of the problems we are currently having around this debate..the general public just want to 'be nice' and go along with a mantra that they KNOW is untrue, that they KNOW is not possible....this is the foundation of everything else that's going on.

TWAW is the lie that supports men in women's sport and in women's spaces. The latter cannot exist without the former.

That is why we need to stop saying it just to be nice.

OhHolyJesus · 18/03/2021 23:12

I have permission to share the letter here and I blank out words so to be able to post.

Bravo I say to them. Bravo.

Dear X and everyone
Thank you for an excellent zoom meeting of Green Party Somerset groups on Saturday March 13th. I came away full of enthusiasm for helping with whatever local elections we have in the new Unitary Authority Somerset next year. I reported about this to our meeting of Bridgwater and West Somerset officers and key member activists on Tuesday March 16th, and we were all set to take part in the campaign.
However, on Tuesday evening we received the news about Emma Bateman's suspension from the Green Party, allegedly for making the unremarkable factual observation that transwomen are not female. As I'm sure you are all aware, Emma is / was Co-Chair of the Green Party Women's Group. Her fellow Chair is Kathryn Bristow, who is a xxx who wishes to be identified as a woman. Because the Women's Group had been forced by Green Party HQ to accept xxx who wish to be identified as women, Kathryn was able to join the group, whereupon xx put himself forward for election as Co-Chair, was elected, and took up the position. Kathryn has been criticised for xxx role in working for Gender GP, the company that was exposed by a recent Daily Telegraph investigation that demonstrated it was selling puberty blocking drugs to children, with no medical supervision. (The company is run by a doctor who was struck off in the UK and is now based in Spain, and the prescriptions are issued by a doctor in Romania; the only check the company makes on the children is to ensure they can pay.) Kathryn has recently stated that xx intends to lie on the census form, which is an offence liable to a fine of £1000. Kathryn is enthusiastically supported by the Green Party leadership. Emma is suspended for telling the truth; Kathryn is applauded for practising deception.
This was the last straw for me.
It follows the debacle of our Spring conference, which demonstrated the catastrophic state of internal democracy within the Green Party. Out of a membership of over 50,000, very few vote in internal elections or at conferences. Fewer than 1% of the members voted at the recent conference. This lack of member involvement allows any determined single-issue splinter group to form the majority of the voters, so they can not only push through contentious motions, they can also elect their preferred officers and control the elected officers whose positions depend on their votes.

At the recent conference, a gender self ID motion was passed: only 493 people voted, of whom 281 were in favour of it. 281 people out of 50,000 have imposed a policy supporting gender self ID on the entire party. What would the 50,000 have said?
A motion proposing that the GP should support women's sex-based rights, in accordance with the United Nations CEDAW agreement (Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women) was voted down. Only 491 people voted, or whom 289 people voted against women's rights, and the motion failed. What would the 50,000 have said?
Because so few people vote, a splinter group can control elected officers, who need their votes to keep their positions. Whatever their personal views may be, none of the Green Party leaders dare to say or do anything to displease the members of the faction. The views of the non-voting 50,000 are disregarded because the 300 or so members of the splinter group must be appeased.
At a national level, Green Party democracy is so catastrophically compromised that it permits the leadership to be kidnapped and the party hijacked by a single-issue group. The system is flawed: it is vulnerable to exploitation by any such group – just now it is the trans rights lobby, but it could have been a pro-Brexit group, or a pro-nuclear group; anything. One solution to this problem might be to raise the quorum for conferences to a higher percentage of the total membership; there could be campaigns at the local branch level to encourage more members to engage in the democratic process.
Many of you will have read the resignation letter from Dom Armstrong, our only Councillor in Sunderland. I am including it below for those who have not yet seen it because it sets things out with admirable clarity and because I share his views.
As a result of all of this, I am going on strike. Not just me: the officers of the Bridgwater and West Somerset branch, along with those active members with whom we work closely on a day-to-day basis, are going on strike. Our acting Secretary, Tony Seaman, has this morning taken the further step of resigning altogether from the Green Party. We are not willing to represent the Green Party in its current dysfunctional state; nor are we willing to ask others to stand as candidates or to take part in election campaigning for the Green Party. This strike will last until, as a minimum requirement, Emma Bateman's suspension is lifted.

OhHolyJesus · 18/03/2021 23:15

Oh I hope that's ok @WarriorN 😳

Oh and I missed one preferred pronoun. Apologies to anyone reading this who would be injured by reading.

Olderstyle1 · 19/03/2021 01:23

That's a fantastic letter OhHoly - if you know the author/s please could you pass on my appreciation for their integrity. Hope the strike spreads - woud be good if it spread to the Labour Party, the LibDems, Plaid and SNP too. Glorious notion!

WarriorN · 19/03/2021 05:08

Holy, that was a great idea blocking out names, I was juggling kids and dinner etc and couldn't think it through; I can't think why the letter can't be shared other than the names.

It's a brilliant letter! And wow, what a move!

highame · 19/03/2021 07:46

So, GP showing what we knew all along. Once the population at large get wind of the nonsensical arguments, and see the real damage that can be inflicted on democracy, they take action.

Well done GP these first steps in the fight back might bring results though your leader seems very reluctant to do anything other than alienate the grassroots and send the voters into mega eye rolling

Go Green women

ArabellaScott · 19/03/2021 09:20

I'm happy to go along with TWAW in law

If you go along with TWAW in law, then women's rights are over.

If males can be classed as women/females, then there is no possibility of protected single sex spaces, no exemptions, no rights to equity, no protected characteristic of 'sex', no nothing.

Everything, but everything, will be mixed sex, or gender neutral, if you prefer.

Some people think this is fine - they see no issue with all sex segregation being removed. It's important to be clear that if you accept TWAW, then this is what you are choosing. You can't have 'TWAW' and women's rights, the two things are mutually exclusive, by definition.

TWAW is the root of this whole problem.

It's sold as a 'nice' wee mantra that shows solidarity. If you look at it in the cold light of day, it means 'no women's rights'. It's as simple as that.

SirVixofVixHall · 19/03/2021 09:30

Agree with Arabella
It is the supposed “kindness” of shoring up this lie that has led to this mess we are in now.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 19/03/2021 10:34

Yes, I don't really know why I said I was happy to go along with TWAW in law and society. I don't believe TWAW, I do think they should be free to wear what they like but I don't want anyone who's not female in my single sex spaces.

I suppose I mean that TW should have the same protections as anyone else in law and in society. But, they can't have mine.

I'm far more interested in the trans men, to be honest. We don't hear much from them, as a group, do we? Don't see them standing for election, running Men's Sheds, taking over the FA or pushing to be included on Father's Day (with one notable exception)

You are right, I was displaying female socialisation. Saying shite to try and smooth things over. FFS.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2021 10:38

You are right, I was displaying female socialisation. Saying shite to try and smooth things over. FFS.

We all do it Thanks don't beat yourself up!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2021 10:42

I'm far more interested in the trans men, to be honest. We don't hear much from them, as a group, do we? Don't see them standing for election, running Men's Sheds, taking over the FA or pushing to be included on Father's Day (with one notable exception)

No. They mostly seem to get in the news for having babies and complaining about female centred language around women's issues. All that male privilege and that's all they do!

teawamutu · 19/03/2021 10:49

@Ereshkigalangcleg

You are right, I was displaying female socialisation. Saying shite to try and smooth things over. FFS.

We all do it Thanks don't beat yourself up!

This is why MN is so vitally important. And why the TRAs hate it so much.
flyingfoxkins · 19/03/2021 13:29

Oh Holy , thanks for publishing this. I left the Green Party when this happened at conference and the motion to support womens rights was turned down - its created a really difficult situation for committed local councillors but I think this action in Bridgewater will bring the issue usefully to light amongst more members which is a good thing. Sad if the Green Party vanishes down this rabbithole - it cannot be a party which claims to support women after this or indeed, a party which puts fighting the climate emergency at the heart of its agenda.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 19/03/2021 14:16

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Yes, I don't really know why I said I was happy to go along with TWAW in law and society. I don't believe TWAW, I do think they should be free to wear what they like but I don't want anyone who's not female in my single sex spaces.

I suppose I mean that TW should have the same protections as anyone else in law and in society. But, they can't have mine.

I'm far more interested in the trans men, to be honest. We don't hear much from them, as a group, do we? Don't see them standing for election, running Men's Sheds, taking over the FA or pushing to be included on Father's Day (with one notable exception)

You are right, I was displaying female socialisation. Saying shite to try and smooth things over. FFS.

No I totally get it, I was like that too a few years ago - I remember thinking 'what's the big deal, just let people be who they want to be'.

Which all sounds very nice and fluffy and peaceful. To be honest, most people don't actually care how other's want to dress or what they want to be known as.

The problem is, when we gave that inch, the TRA's took a mile and it's now being used as a stick to beat us with.

Which is sad because I believe most of us would be largely supportive of trans people in general, and would have supported third/ unisex spaces in public areas. But not at the cost of our rights and our needs.

OhHolyJesus · 19/03/2021 14:34

No worries foxkins

it's not just the women leaving either...

twitter.com/laplandlongspur/status/1372899703155724289?s=21

SunsetBeetch · 19/03/2021 19:17

[quote OhHolyJesus]No worries foxkins

it's not just the women leaving either...

twitter.com/laplandlongspur/status/1372899703155724289?s=21[/quote]
That's a really good thread. And there are more men in thecreplies agreeing with him too.