Why AREN’T men more afraid?

[Lessthanaballpark]

In all the discussion around Sarah Everard and women’s safety, it keeps coming up that men are statistically more likely to be victims of violence ( the perps being men obvs)

Yet, why then aren’t men more afraid? I can’t remember seeing much in the news about male on male violence.

Is that because it’s easier to feel sympathy for women?

And why aren’t men afraid?

Is it because they think they have a fighting chance against any perps?

Is it because they are not targeted for being men?

Is it because the violence towards women is more sexual?

I’d genuinely like to know what everyone thinks, because it seems to me that they should be more scared than they are.

I think that men don't like to 'submit', which is likely how they've evolved and is central to 'the pecking order' and very possibly hormone influenced.

I mean, almost every teen martial art film has the scene where the bullies intimidate the geek....but this time he doesn't back down and kicks their arses. I find this quite telling.

I am not going to comment on what women feel beyond asking the question "aren't we all unafraid until we have been given reason to be ?"

I have had my fair share of altercations as a younger guy... Never started a fight but been subject of a 5v1 assault, a road rage attack, and a couple of moments on trains home late at night. I think before the worst incident I was probably a cocky, typical 20 year old, especially since I was in the forces and convinced I was invincible. A good hammering by five assailants dissuades you of that notion real fast, even if I did fight them to a "bloody" draw. Since then I have always been wary late at night, especially when passing groups of men / youths. That is my experience. It doesn't stop me doing much, but I am not going to walk home through dodgy parts of London on my own late at night, and even outside of big cities I am very vigilant when alone in the dark.

I worry about physical violence, rather than sexual violence. I think that is just because it has been my experience. I had a long chat with my 20 year old daughter the other day and she told me about the amount of unwanted attention and harassment she has experienced and it shocked me. Apparently guys my age ( fifties ) being some of the worst culprits which makes me feel sick tbh. Her view is that the justice system needs to be toughened up to provide a deterrent value rather but even that won't stop predators... Unless they get caught.

So to answer the OP's question succinctly... Perhaps we don't feel fear until we are given reason to. Most men are not born fighters who love to brawl. Even winning a fight hurts and shakes you up once you have time to think about it. Once you've been shaken up you don't forget easily.

I think society has a big part to play and how women are raised.

My parents wouldn’t approve to me going out on my own in certain areas. It’s also a common position with lots of people. I saw someone writing on a Facebook group recently about how women shouldn’t be jogging alone in certain areas. It’s not because of any attacks and the person writing was a woman. This is a common position you’re exposed to constantly as a woman. So you can start to feel like you’ll be blamed if something happens. Whereas men aren’t.

If I was a man my parents would likely not have warned me so much and likewise you never see people complaining about men out on their own.

I don't really understand the point that the posters who talk about their make relatives are trying to make tbh so if anyone wants to explain more that would be good.

Just answering the question in the OP.

I don't really understand the point that the posters who talk about their make relatives are trying to make tbh so if anyone wants to explain more that would be good.

What don’t you understand? The men’s reasoning? Why the comments were posted? What they mean semantically?

I want to know what people’s DHs think! The question is about them and their perceptions of their own safety.

So far I've never been assaulted by a stranger, but with the passage of time I'm becoming more careful. I was never exactly strong, but as I am getting older and slower I worry more. I think that the streets are less safe now than when I was younger, but that may just be a false perception. Certainly, I am more wary of groups of young men than I used to be.

I certainly don't go out in city centres on the weekends like I used to. I'm not in the UK any more. I live in a nice medieval city in the Benelux region. Pre-covid, I'd only go out here at weekends when my wife came over for the weekend, so we are sat in quiet bars or cobbled squares drinking and chatting, along with all the other old fogeys. Life is definitely quieter here, although I'm sure there are more raucous venues, as it's a university town. But before here, two summers ago, I was living in a similar town in Germany. Again, it seemed a lot less hectic than the UK, even on a Saturday night.

Sorry, lots of preamble there - but where I've been recently outside of the UK seems a lot calmer, a lot less riotous and confrontational. There's definitely a problem with the drinking culture in the UK, and that leads into a lot of the problems that men, even my age, face. So while I never felt scared in the UK - and I've never really had a lot of problems there - over here in mainland Europe, I wonder if women over here feel safer too? Is anyone able to confirm?

My DH is working away so can’t ask him, but I had a boyfriend in my late teens/early 20s who definitely felt more afraid than I did.

When he was about 19 or 20 someone tried to punched him and pull him out his car when we were out together one evening. He wasn’t physically hurt and later found out it was a case of mistaken identity, but the fear of what could happen never really left him.

At that time I had very little fear at all. Many years later, 30 years old, married to DH and with a baby at home I had a close call of my own after two men nearly succeeded in luring me outside the lobby of a conference I was organising into a secluded car park. Aside from my boss, who was spectacularly dismissive, I never told anyone. I definitely felt more vulnerable from that point onwards.

Someone upthread said we are all unafraid until we’re given a reason to be. Maybe women are more afraid because we are given that reason earlier. Be it through experience or socialisation.

Someone upthread said we are all unafraid until we’re given a reason to be. Maybe women are more afraid because we are given that reason earlier. Be it through experience or socialisation

Definately. Or trans generational trauma passed down by parents/grandparents who experienced something that shaped the way they brought us up

A turning point for me was being attacked by an ex when I was 19.

He was 6 4 and played rugby. I'm 5 2 and weighed 7 stone.

There was nothing I could do. All this talk about martial arts is nice- and it's good for confidence health etc.

But what I learnt was really if a man decided to do something there wasn't really anything I could do. The fact that I said no repeatedly and he just ignored it... It changed me tbh.

It was at lunchtime and I should have been safe- I knew him very well and no warning signs. Gentle lovely bloke.

So after that I thought well I might as well do what I like because it can happen anytime and be anyone and there's nothing you can do so why restrict my life.

I've spoken with my brother about this before. He said that he is absolutely afraid and on guard much of the time when out and about at night and in areas where he knows there are rowdy groups of men around. He's been attacked "randomly" while on nights out.

I think the difference in general fear levels is to do with the sexual element (being raped is worse than being beaten up-harder to recover from) and the "provocation" element? Women provoke sexual violence simply by existing as women. Nothing we can do about it. Whereas men generally know that if they are minding their business they're unlikely to be attacked?

My son and his friends are 19/20 now and they all stopped going into town on the weekend not long after they were allowed too.
Obviously covid has put a stop to this for most of the last year.
Basically once they all turned 18 they were all excited to go into town drinking / clubs ect but I think pretty much all of them have have various levels of beatings. Two of them spend a few days in hospital and they were knocked out cold and basically woke up in hospital.
Last summer I even went into town with them clubbing to look after them as best I could and did defuse one situation.
When things do open up he told me he’s not going into town and neither are his friends. They go to each other’s houses and drink beer playing Xbox ect.
So from my personal experience at least my sons group of friends are scared and their young clubbing days lasted about 6 months.
Such a shame as they are all lovely lads and have known each other since pre school, played in the same rugby team together same school ect.
I’ve build a garden bar and I’m hopefully going to put a TV out there soon dartboard ect and told them they can use that this summer to meet up which they seem keen to do.
I’ll probably regret that decision!

I'm concerned of street violence and I know I am at higher risk of it than a women of my age, but I have not been subject to constant low-level and higher level harassment throughout my life. It's very rare for people to comment on my body or appearance, get angry or aggressive if I reject them, and even if they do, I know it's unlikely a woman would ever do anything about it. I'm simply not worried about being sexually assaulted or raped. I am someone who will usually run away or back down rather than face the possibilty of violence.

I've avoided a couple of muggings, and was nearly attacked when I got angry at being falsely accused of throwing bottle in a pub. I nearly got punched because I accidentally spilled a woman's drink, but I had a very large friend with me. The closest I've come is when walking a friend home and a couple of guys started hassling her - which quickly switched to me when I told them to stop it.

So, I might be scared in the moment, if I sense there might be trouble, but day-to-day, the fear is simply not there.

It's sad that the group least likely to be assaulted or harrased - older women - are the group that's most fearful of it.

"concerned by"

@DadJoke

I'm concerned of street violence and I know I am at higher risk of it than a women of my age, but I have not been subject to constant low-level and higher level harassment throughout my life. It's very rare for people to comment on my body or appearance, get angry or aggressive if I reject them, and even if they do, I know it's unlikely a woman would ever do anything about it. I'm simply not worried about being sexually assaulted or raped. I am someone who will usually run away or back down rather than face the possibilty of violence.

I've avoided a couple of muggings, and was nearly attacked when I got angry at being falsely accused of throwing bottle in a pub. I nearly got punched because I accidentally spilled a woman's drink, but I had a very large friend with me. The closest I've come is when walking a friend home and a couple of guys started hassling her - which quickly switched to me when I told them to stop it.

So, I might be scared in the moment, if I sense there might be trouble, but day-to-day, the fear is simply not there.

It's sad that the group least likely to be assaulted or harrased - older women - are the group that's most fearful of it.

And there you have a complete lack of insight and empathy into what a woman is and how we feel. Being cautious / fear of males is engrained into women from our earliest days. Although we become more invisible as we get older we of course are also mothers, daughters, sisters, aunts etc and we talk and listen to other women. I fear far more for the safety of my daughters than I do for myself.- which is why the fear is life long. Always depressing to see arrogant men dismissing this

@persistentwoman

You've entirely misunderstood me. I'm suggesting that because I am a man I have not had to experience the abuse and harrasment women get constantly, that I am while I am at higher risk of violence, I am at much lower risk for the risks of which women are rightly afraid. I am not frightened because of my socialisation as a man. I've not been cowed, ground done, nor has it been suggested to me that it's my fault if I am attacked, and I need to mitigate that risk mysefl.

I said this "It's sad that the group least likely to be assaulted or harrased - older women - are the group that's most fearful of it" because that's what the evidence suggests, and I am sure it's because of the constant ingrained fear that is down to sexism and oppression.

This article summarise ONS data on the fear of crime versus the risk of crime.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/21/women-feel-unsafe-least-likely-attacked-crime-survey-analysis

Generally speaking I don't worry when I'm out and about, but do risk assess, particularly at night. I'll avoid certain routes when alone, and will try to avoid whole areas, especially in London.

The only time I've ever felt really high levels of anxiety was back in the early nineties. I'd taken over £50k in cash for the sale of a car and was asked to go with the lady from accounts to pay it into the bank.

We were dropped at the edge of the pedestrian area of a large market town at around lunchtime. We had maybe 300 yards to cover to the bank. The woman I was with was chatting away seemingly without a care in the world, but I was really on edge, something I'd never experienced before, and I didn't like it. Of course we probably looked like any other couple strolling in the sunshine and that 300 yards or so were covered completely uneventfully.

So no, as a man, I'm not generally concerned about my safety in public, but if the sort of experience I had is what some women feel all the time, you have my genuine sympathy.

*had a few months where my favourite spot at the tube station had this issue poster about 9 feet high opposite me

www.google.com/search?q=tube+advert+unlicenced+cab&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjGuoXK4LPvAhUiEWMBHZVKBM0Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=tube+advert+unlicenced+cab&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECB4QCjoCCCk6BAgAEEM6BwgAELEDEEM6BQgAELEDOggIABCxAxCDAToCCAA6BggAEAUQHjoGCAAQCBAeUOtFWP6bAmCBogJoBXAAeACAAYACiAHBIZIBBjQuMjUuM5gBAKABAbABBcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=XRZQYIaYE6KijLsPlZWR6Aw&bih=670&biw=360&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&prmd=imsvn#imgrc=2gOVl-X4zLdn2M

Women being attacked is in loads of TV progs.*

Good grief, I think that's the worst "Women, don't get yourselves raped" ad I've ever seen. Are there any "Men, don't get yourselves beaten up" ads?

Men are rarely sexually threatened by women. Women, however, feel frequently threatened sexually by men - Men are more physically powerful (in general) and more bloody menacing than we are - I say this as a victim of some constant full-on harassment in my youth and as mother of two beauties aged 14 & 18 - it disgusts me what they have to endure - luckily they are both feisty as fuck and DD18 has a wonderfully respectful boyfriend.

A lot of men are ill disciplined, sexually aggressive and entitled pigs - Women have more decorum - can you imagine it being commonplace for middle aged women to wind down their windows and shout sexually charged comments at teen boys? No, I thought not - men do this all the time to younger women ...

'It's sad that the group least likely to be assaulted or harrased - older women - are the group that's most fearful of it.'

I don't think this is true at all tbh.

I think young women take more 'risks' because they want to go out, they can't afford cabs, they want to have a laugh, get off with people etc.

The risk reward is different.

The other thing is that young women know that if anyone does anything while taking those 'risks' it will be seen as what did they expect.

This is why I always question the narrative that young men are bigger risk takers. Yes they take more of the sort of risks that are recognised as risks and yes young men dying in car incidents is high.

However the risks young women take are different. In terms of doing something you know to be risky. For a young woman it might be going home with a man she's just met. She knows she's not supposed to its not 'safe'. She's heard all the horror stories. She goes anyway.

So yeah not sure about that narrative I think women's experiences and how they think and feel are not really on the radar.

Not just because if anyone says it's risky to go home with someone the responses will be both. That's really dangerous. And. You can't tar all men with the same brush what a way to live your life being fearful of men...

Driving a car fast is s lot less complicated than that I think (not to downplay the risk and consequences).

@NiceGerbil

That's a really good point about risk taking and an example I haven't really considered before and never see in writing about it.

Of my family, two men (unrelated as they don't know each other personally iyswim) have been beaten up with baseball bats and put in a coma.

Happened in different parts of the U.K. One was a random attack, one was from someone he knew, but unsuspected and was jumped from behind.

Similar has happened to another male friend.

I know one woman who was attacked and dragged into an alley way. Luckily she fought him off.

For me it depends on where I am. I sort of agree with @FATEdestiny in that, where I live, I am not afraid. When I lived in cities I was also not afraid but wary...took precautions.

FWIW I always remember my Gran telling me that if I was in trouble and houses were near by, I should smash glass and/or shout "fire", as people are more likely to come and see what is happening than with other screaming and shouting.

@Rockluvvindad

I am not going to comment on what women feel beyond asking the question "aren't we all unafraid until we have been given reason to be ?"

I have had my fair share of altercations as a younger guy... Never started a fight but been subject of a 5v1 assault, a road rage attack, and a couple of moments on trains home late at night. I think before the worst incident I was probably a cocky, typical 20 year old, especially since I was in the forces and convinced I was invincible. A good hammering by five assailants dissuades you of that notion real fast, even if I did fight them to a "bloody" draw. Since then I have always been wary late at night, especially when passing groups of men / youths. That is my experience. It doesn't stop me doing much, but I am not going to walk home through dodgy parts of London on my own late at night, and even outside of big cities I am very vigilant when alone in the dark.

I worry about physical violence, rather than sexual violence. I think that is just because it has been my experience. I had a long chat with my 20 year old daughter the other day and she told me about the amount of unwanted attention and harassment she has experienced and it shocked me. Apparently guys my age ( fifties ) being some of the worst culprits which makes me feel sick tbh. Her view is that the justice system needs to be toughened up to provide a deterrent value rather but even that won't stop predators... Unless they get caught.

So to answer the OP's question succinctly... Perhaps we don't feel fear until we are given reason to. Most men are not born fighters who love to brawl. Even winning a fight hurts and shakes you up once you have time to think about it. Once you've been shaken up you don't forget easily.

While I think it's true, I think it's telling that the nature of the reason you were given was a physical attack in your 20s, long after you'd been independent with many positive experiences. Whereas most girls are given direct, first person reason in their teens or tweens and all girls a lot more indirect messages by then too.

The young age at which girls become the target of sexual entitlement by men is a prime issue in this debate.

I'm 68 and I am not frightened of being attacked- why on earth would I , I'm not rich looking (no fancy bag or watch), I'm not sexy looking, I'm not cowed, small and frightened looking,. Why would anyone man or woman attack me. I'm surprised about older women being most afraid.
I hardly ever go out at night on the streets but would if I needed to.