Why AREN’T men more afraid?

[Lessthanaballpark]

In all the discussion around Sarah Everard and women’s safety, it keeps coming up that men are statistically more likely to be victims of violence ( the perps being men obvs)

Yet, why then aren’t men more afraid? I can’t remember seeing much in the news about male on male violence.

Is that because it’s easier to feel sympathy for women?

And why aren’t men afraid?

Is it because they think they have a fighting chance against any perps?

Is it because they are not targeted for being men?

Is it because the violence towards women is more sexual?

I’d genuinely like to know what everyone thinks, because it seems to me that they should be more scared than they are.

Is it lack of awareness possibly?

^

Yes. And it starts in early childhood. Take for example my DS, for example. He's 7, and the tallest in his year. He's also well built. He looks down on every single other kid. Because of this he lacks awareness of what he should perhaps fear. This is a simplistic view, but I do think is a contributing factor.

I asked my DH if he ever felt unsafe walking home from the station - never he said, why would I?

I'd change my day around not to walk home at night from the station, even in our very safe area.

These are great replies. Thanks! Yes I definitely think that the sexual nature has something to do with it because as a PP said, rape is a particularly terrifying thing to endure.

There’s something about being targeted for just being who you are as there’s nothing you can do about it. My ex was the victim of a vicious racist attack and he was afraid for a long time.

As a man I've certainly felt threatened. Last train home can feel uncomfortable on your own as can walking on your own. I've certainly pretended to be on the phone before and stepped into a takeaway. I understand that women are at greater risk but the people out to commit violent offences generally don't care against whom they commit them.

people out to commit violent offences generally don't care against whom they commit them.

Except in the case of sex crimes.

FATE I was always like you really, have done a lot of staggering home alone in my time, headphones in, never really thought I shouldn't. Keys in between fingers, always on a kind of alert, but fairly sure I'd be okay. There but for the grace of etc.

I feel a lot more aware since having kids really. Overnight 'it could never happen' turned into 'anything could kill any one of us omg'. Reality is obviously somewhere between the two :)

@grassisjeweled

Is it lack of awareness possibly?

^

Yes. And it starts in early childhood. Take for example my DS, for example. He's 7, and the tallest in his year. He's also well built. He looks down on every single other kid. Because of this he lacks awareness of what he should perhaps fear. This is a simplistic view, but I do think is a contributing factor.

I asked my DH if he ever felt unsafe walking home from the station - never he said, why would I?

I'd change my day around not to walk home at night from the station, even in our very safe area.

He's a child. I definitely try to stay aware of people and my surroundings at all times.

There's some very interesting views on this thread. I would certainly be worried if I had teenage boys when they go out but I suppose they are attacked for different reasons.

Do you think it's that fact that women are attacked for sexual reasons that makes the difference. I know sometimes sexual predators attack men but it seems rarer.

My dp has been attacked 4 times.

Once was a random glassing, one was when he ironically tried to intervene when a man and woman were arguing and she turned on him with a stilleto, one punch and walk off type thing and he's been changed.

He looks a certain type....... Face like a bag of spanners, shaved head (( because he's bald)) he's a big guy but honestly couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. My dp no longer goes out at night and tbh is now reluctant to go out without me. He certainly wouldn't go around bars and clubs at night and if he drinks he'll only have a couple to keep his wits about him.

I think another reason is,when a woman is murdered, there are calls for women not to go out at night, not to go out alone, and so on. I don't think I've seen that after a man has been murdered except possibly gay men.

He's a child. I definitely try to stay aware of people and my surroundings at all times

^

Of course. And education about this is key. But I think they is something going on at a primal level when it comes to boys/men and women /girls. They realise they're stronger and can take advantage of this. Obviously it brings up the whole nature /nurture argument too.

Interesting question. I asked DP and he first brought up aggressive bouncers and alcohol testosterone induced fights on nights out.

I then said but what would you be thinking walking to the shop down the road now (1am). He said probably not a lot because the issue occurs because men are aggressive, and as such he thinks aggressively too rather than 'scared' IYSWIM. He thinks men are more wired to fight than flight and bought up stags butting heads in a field.

We are slightly drunk. It was an interesting if sporadic discussion so thank you OP

@grassisjeweled

He's a child. I definitely try to stay aware of people and my surroundings at all times

^

Of course. And education about this is key. But I think they is something going on at a primal level when it comes to boys/men and women /girls. They realise they're stronger and can take advantage of this. Obviously it brings up the whole nature /nurture argument too.

My male strength is irrelevant when it comes to weaponry or multiple attackers, or just being completely caught off guard.

Possibly it's about risk and the type of violence. For men it's like say driving a car there's a risk of an accident, possibly with life changing consequences, but it isn't a visceral fear. For women the fear of rape, of being reduced to complete helplessness and powerlessness, something that's reinforced regularly by the active behaviour of men who intimidate, grope, make verbal assaults and insinuations etc.

I understand men reacting after an attack, post traumatic shock etc but that follows the experience, if that makes sense.

I think men are more afraid than you'd think, we just aren't allowed to display that fear openly.

Perhaps I view it differently to other men, I don't know, because I was always a "target" in my youth because of my size. Very tall, freakishly tall, but overweight and "soft" looking I guess. Groups of lads would harass me for sport, because a fat guy can't give chase, and they'd only do it when there were at least 3 together. It was mostly verbal harassment, but I got a fair few punches aswell in my time, particularly when someone was trying to impress a girl. A kind of "look how hard I am, I'm gonna fight that big bloke" situation.

As a result, I learnt to be far more observant, both out on the streets and in pubs etc and could spot the ones likely to cause me issues early on. Group of lads smoking outside the co-op? Cross the road and head to a different shop. Some drunk/drugged up guys in a bar keep looking at me across the room and nudging each other, time to leave.

Would I go for a walk right now? Where I live now, yes I would. If I was at my mums house, not a chance because of the area she lives in.

I used to feel relatively safe in my home town, untill a guy I knew (had been at my school, we drank in the same pubs, knew the same people) was beaten to death with a metal bar whilst walking down to the taxis from the bar after getting his kebab, in a mugging gone wrong. It was a route I'd walked myself alone many times and had never given it any thought because I "knew" the area. Makes you look back and see how many stupid risks you took when you were younger and how things could've ended up so much worse aside from luck being on your side at the time.

I can never fully comprehend what the fear must be like for a woman though because, and Im.sorry if this is too blunt, I don't fear being raped. I can be mugged, I can be attacked by someone off their face, or a group of guys are bored and just want a fight, but I'll never be attacked with sex in mind. Maybe that's what makes it so different for men so that they aren't as afraid all the time? You can spot the guys likely to.mug you if you're paying attention, so it narrows the field a bit. For a sexual crime, it could be any man. The taxi driver I've just had a good old chat with on the way home and
I think he's been a sound guy, could pick up a girl on her own next and become a totally different person. The danger isn't focused, its potentially everywhere.

We are slightly drunk. It was an interesting if sporadic discussion so thank you OP

Ah that makes me happy to know I’ve been responsible for a tiddly late night discussion in a mumsnet household somewhere

Is it because they are not targeted for being men?

In a nutshell, yes. Not being targeted and/or being able to defer violence purely from a physical point of view.

I suspect most men are afraid of what sexual violence could be like, but you can never contemplate with the complete sense of fear, helplessness and the self-deprecating behaviour that is commonplace afterwards and how it takes over such a massive proportion of one's life. I'm one of the tiny percentage of men who've had a monster strip one completely of worth, and I'm so sorry.

Yet, why then aren’t men more afraid?

I think many of them are. And probably don't go out much. And probably don't talk about it to many people.

Of course loads of others aren't afraid, and they're the ones we see out and about as if without a care. This gives the impression that men don't fear violent attack, and we never hear about those that are. They might not even admit it to themselves.

Men are most often murdered expediently, whereas women are killed for entertainment. People fear murder but it's pretty exceptional for an adult male to be kidnapped, raped and tortured first. Women's nightmares can come true.

The men who murder other men mostly seem to be yobs, overt criminals or deranged. The men who murder women seem to live double lives. Put it this way, a taxi-driver might avoid picking up yobbish passengers in case they beat him up, but a man isn't going to worry about getting a taxi in case the driver rapes and murders him.

Rightly or wrongly, the perception is that most male murder victims are very young and involved in high-risk activity. There's the sense that men age out of risk or can take steps to avoid risk. Women murdered by strangers are targeted for being who they are and can vanish into thin air between the bus-stop and home. There's the sense that it's all completely random and beyond our control.

Above all, women face nasty little incidents all the time and each time we think, 'Is this man going to leave it at that, or is this the prelude to something really horrifying?' Most men don't rape or murder us, but there's a lot that get off on using the potential of it. Do we get threatened more, and by men who look 'ordinary'?

Ah that makes me happy to know I’ve been responsible for a tiddly late night discussion in a mumsnet household somewhere

Oh its been quite the discussion. Still ongoing partly. We were discussing PPs comments above, I can be mugged, I can be attacked by someone off their face, or a group of guys are bored and just want a fight, but I'll never be attacked with sex in mind.

and I am in hysterics at remembering the time when DP dressed up for french themed Movember celebrations. He is never one for full on fancy dress so wore a striped t-shirt, skinny jeans and had a bit of a french moustache going on and looked casual enough to be not in fancy dress but instead peacocking to other gay men. He rung me up in a drunken panic after being hit on by another man and wouldnt explain the situation just said 'bring the car to the front of the pub, bring it noooww!!!' He had never been in a situation of unwanted sexual advances by a man before and was genuinely terrified. Bless him. Its definitely a sex thing thats the distinguishing difference.

I think as well...for women it’s more of a constant thing.

So you know in certain situations that rape or murder is a possible outcome, but fairly unlikely, but there are loads of other far more likely and still unpleasant outcomes to account for as well.

Being groped, catcalled, having a man try and “chat you up” where you’re struggling to get rid of him are all part of the same risk assessments and they do happen all the time... and on top of that if a man does anything like that, you don’t know for definite that’s all he’ll do.

I’ve asked my husband about this. He says if he’s walking at night and there’s another bloke or group of blokes hanging about he does feel a bit nervous, but he also knows that there is a chance that if they decide to beat him up, that he can probably fight back to a certain extent. He’s not a fighter at all but he’s fit and strong and feels confident that he could land some meaningful punches.

He also doesn’t really worry about being raped or even killed (partly because we live in a safe area where it isn’t known for stabbings)
Whereas I know that if a man randomly decides to attack me I will have very little chance of fighting him off as I’m 5ft4 and slightly built.

Plus, I asked him and in 42 years he has NEVER once had anyone start anything with him, or comment on him by a stranger or any kind of unfavourable altercation at all. So he doesn’t worry about things escalating as he just doesn’t have that experience.

@FATEdestiny, I don't think I can say I was never afraid, or would have felt comfortable running alone at night with no street lights, but I certainly felt a lot safer and used to do a lot more, including walking on my own at night (in street-lit) areas without any fear until I was mugged twice within 6 months, the first at gun-point in another country, and the second in this country, which I found more terrifying than the first because I heard the pounding feet behind me and knew what was going to happen. It really knocked my confidence and I was afraid to even walk the short distance from home to the train station for years after that. I'm still afraid now if there is no one around except me and any shifty looking person, even though the muggings were over twenty years ago.

When men are victims of sexual assault they are even less likely to report the crime to the relevant authorities than women. I know they are far less likely to suffer in this way but it does happen.
On balance, I am more fearful for my DS on a night out than my DDs. You are correct though, in that he is far less cautious than his sisters.

That is such an uneducated, generalised statement

I'd be curious whether the statistics that show men are more likely to be victims of violence, include withing "violence" all the incidents of being groped on public transport, in a club etc. that blight women's lives. I can't see how they could as those kinds of things happen very rarely to most men, whereas for women they are sadly normal, and probably contribute more to the pervading sense of fear than extreme acts like murder which are also relatively rare.

I'm a man. I must admit I do sometimes feel afraid when out alone at night. I try to keep to well-lit streets and places where there are people around. I've been mugged before - I wasn't physically injured but it certainly wasn't something I'm keen to experience again. I've also been sexually harassed by men before (although at my age that's not something that I'm likely to experience again).

I suppose you could say that fear of violence does curtail my behaviour, in that there are certain places I wouldn't go, and certain things I wouldn't do, late at night. I don't think this is anywhere near the scale of women's experience though.