Ireland..you could not make this up

[purplepizzabunny]

A vociferous campaigner for repeal the 8th campaign, Bernie Linnane, posted just now referring to JK Rowling as an "old trout", and freely admitted she has blocked people from the ARC twitter page, even though that page is a very useful source of info for anyone looking for advice on a termination. So in summary a woman makes derogatory comments about a someone's appearance, and decides that women who do not agree with her are not entitled to access information.

twitter.com/Berlinnaeus/status/1368245476810752006

twitter.com/Berlinnaeus/status/1368247803814805504

Exactly Cailleach, I remember voting for marriage equality and all the hoo-haa about #HomeToVote .

I do not recall voting for Gender Self-ID.
If you look at the Wiki page (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomeToVote) there is no mention of self-ID legislation being voted on. [now that I've drawn attention to it, it may be altered by the monitors, so I screenshotted it ].

Sadly, and I do mean very sadly , the first letter is signed by 2 lecturers in Philosophy, who, one would think, would be very familiar with moral relativism. One would think that they would be able to see and hold in mind, 2 opposing view points at the same time, without condemnation of one.

Ivory towers

"While Irish anti-trans campaigners now echo the tactics and rhetoric of their British counterparts, even as they insist that theirs is a homegrown movement,"

Then it is signed by Elizabeth from Liverpool.

That first letter misses the point that the laws weren't controversial because no-one knew they were being passed.

Mentioning Foy plays to the assumption of most people that trans=significant medical and surgical intervention following psychological and psychiatric investigation. That has little similarity with the current state of play where any randomer can just fill out a form for any reason they see fit.

So what if it was brought in in 2015? The Eighth Amendment was brought in in 1983. Unlike the GRA it was voted on and everyone knew about it, but just like the GRA it was still a terrible regressive change.

"It's been law for X number of years"
"Everyone knew about it"
"You only think you have a problem with it because you've been listening to Godless British women"

None of these things are valid counterarguments. None of them deal with the crucial questions:

• Do women deserve the safety and privacy of single sex spaces
• Do women deserve single sex resources
• Do women deserve to be able to name and discuss themselves exclusive of male people

I saw the letters today. Look in relation the GRA, a few TRA's have posted newspaper articles, so I'm sure the fact legislation was being passed was referred to, even if only in official oireachtas business, but there certainly was no public debate - IIRC it's been pointed out that originally it was the medical model that was due to be passed but it was changed to self id at the last minute, but I'm open to correction. Either way, it's a democratic society and just because there were no obvious complaints when the legislation was passed doesn't preclude me or anyone speaking up now. It's akin to the antichoicers telling us we had no right to lobby for a change in abortion laws as the 8th amendment was passed in 1983, and like that it was publicly discussed and a referendum was held.

@notyourhandmaid

It's the one who abuses women for wanting the word 'women' in cervical screening info... wait, that doesn't narrow it down much, does it?

No, the latest addition is a trans man who accompanied her friend over to Poland for "top" surgery, and both of them came back to Poland covid positive.

@purplepizzabunny I knew who you meant! They've also been vicious on the cervical screening thing. But that's not great as an identifier in these cases because that's... eh... every Irish trans activist.
(And that individual has also worked in a role-model capacity with young people. Dangerous.)

And yeah, it is not fair to say that 'people knew' about the GRA when it was constantly presented in terms of being about transsexuals. There are plenty of people who knew it had passed in 2015 but didn't know the specific details.

It's one A4-sized form. It's the least complicated bit of form-filling the Irish state offers, for FFS.

@saltedcaramelchocolate

"While Irish anti-trans campaigners now echo the tactics and rhetoric of their British counterparts, even as they insist that theirs is a homegrown movement,"

Then it is signed by Elizabeth from Liverpool.

I posted the exact same comment on the other thread - irony fail by Elizabeth

I suppose it hasn't entered her head that the issues are the same everywhere, therefore so are the counterarguments.

In todays IT, an opinion piece from Iseult White and a letter to the editor about self ID being brought in by stealth

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/transphobic-terf-or-sex-traitor-this-trans-rights-culture-war-must-stop-1.4512119

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/lobbying-for-gender-recognition-1.4512174

Is anyone in Ireland amazed that there are going to be demonstrations because of Sarah Everard's death (www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/sarah-everard-protest-planned-dublin-20169148) but yet there were no protests when Urantsetseg Tserendorj was stabbed in the neck and died in Dublin in January (www.thejournal.ie/teen-assault-ifsc-5337272-Jan2021/).

Is it the victim or the perpetrator that has made Sarah's death more warranting of a protest than Urantsetseg? Or is it that certain Irish feminists wanted to glom on to the protests that UK feminists had started?

That's a good article by Iseult. Well balanced and sums up the situation vey well.
That letter in the second link is also excellent and I hope that as more people read about this then politicians will finally realise that this legislation is not as progressive as they thought it was.

[quote miri1985]In todays IT, an opinion piece from Iseult White and a letter to the editor about self ID being brought in by stealth

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/transphobic-terf-or-sex-traitor-this-trans-rights-culture-war-must-stop-1.4512119

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/lobbying-for-gender-recognition-1.4512174[/quote]
Excellent letter from Jean. That sums it up 100% accurately.

miri thanks for the links to both the article and Jean's letter. Applause to both.

As Iseult says "The profoundly challenging work of compassion is to find compassion for the people with whom you disagree".
T'was ever thus.
To sympathise and attempt to understand someone with whom you disagree - it's hard work, and requires maturity and reflection. Not much of which is evident on social media.

Growing up, I would have thought that Lydia Foy was an unusual case. As a young adult, I would have thought "what's the harm" in allowing her to change her documentation and be recognised by the State as being female.
As an older adult, I wonder about her wife and daughters.....

When I stand back from the toxicity of the "trans rights" discourse, I feel sad for people who are so uncomfortable with the sex of their body, that they feel the need to change their gender.
In the same way that I feel compassion for someone who has lost a limb and seeks to use a prosthesis.

I can simultaneously (because I am a thoughtful adult) hold in mind, the need for safety and dignity for women.

Some good comments on the Iseult article. The silent majority are starting to wake up to what is going on.

"Lesbians and gay men had to go to the people to ask in a referendum if same-sex couples could marry but our politicians decided on their own to abandon biology as the signifier of maleness and femaleness in Ireland and replace it with the concept of “gender”, which is not defined anywhere in the legislation." (from Joan's letter)

Yes.

And then three years later women had to go begging for bodily autonomy.

Which involved persuasion and debate despite the indignity of it.

'No debate' was not an option in either of these cases and to tell Irish women of a liberal persuasion that it should be is incredibly tone-deaf and offensive.

This is an extract from a blog on gender gp from aoife Martin. Comparing the success of same sex marriage and then the stealth of self Id. Show them this the next time someone says that EVERYONE knew about it.

Excellent find XXSex

archive.is/eCP9X

Link to archive of gender gp to avoid giving them clicks.

Also the charming pigeon does not find GC women sy attractive. Sorry to break all hearts.

twitter.com/gaslightingwom1/status/1372219453371518977

#Resisting captivity
#Wewillbeheard

@XXSex

This is an extract from a blog on gender gp from aoife Martin. Comparing the success of same sex marriage and then the stealth of self Id. Show them this the next time someone says that EVERYONE knew about it.

Thanks XXSex.

If AM was not so viciously cruel towards women...

So AM is the American male borned person who moved to Ireland to Irish women not to listen to English women?.

No am is irish born. Dcb is the American