Ireland..you could not make this up

[purplepizzabunny]

A vociferous campaigner for repeal the 8th campaign, Bernie Linnane, posted just now referring to JK Rowling as an "old trout", and freely admitted she has blocked people from the ARC twitter page, even though that page is a very useful source of info for anyone looking for advice on a termination. So in summary a woman makes derogatory comments about a someone's appearance, and decides that women who do not agree with her are not entitled to access information.

twitter.com/Berlinnaeus/status/1368245476810752006

twitter.com/Berlinnaeus/status/1368247803814805504

[XXSex]

And single sex child will be dismantled once the amendment to the GRA comes in. It will be illegal (by way of discrimination) not to allow a self ID male 16 year old into a girls school. Illegal for a school/club to not allow that child to share a bedroom with a girl.

Parents need to recognise this and make some noise with their TDs.

[elgreco]

Thanks for the replies. It is just so strange how quickly the males have captured female agencies. Is it because we got some abortion rights and relaxed? I don't understand why you would join a group that is advocating abortion rights and then change the goals, why not just join Teli ?

[elgreco]

I say we......I have never campaigned against or for anything.....just voted.

[saltedcaramelchocolate]

I see Sports Eireann are attempting to improve teenage girls participation in sports.
I would imagine that this dropout rate will increase once Self ID is extended to under 16s.

[miri1985]

Women daring to bring up that some Irish feminists may have a problem with self ID (which according to this article is working fine) at the IWL conference has earned a scold from the Irish Times

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/irish-feminists-must-avoid-british-trap-of-transphobia-1.4507862

No divergence is allowed apparently Irish women must be a monolith who are perfectly fine with their redefinition

[FionaMacCool]

miri I read that article about an hour ago.

I am incensed and barely articulate at this time of morning.

I'm as Irish as they come. Trans rights are human rights but trans rights are not women's rights.

The idea that I voted for gender self-id in 2018 when I voted for the Abotion referendum...its laughable. I wasn't aware of that provision in the legislation at all at all.

I am of the generation that was a child during Granard, the Kerry babies, the emerging child abuse scandals in Ferns etc. I am very very clear about what is a biological female and it is different to a biological male. That difference is the basis of mass discrimination, disadvantage and violence across the world.

I have my own mind- the notion that I am either a "West Brit" (as far from as you can imagine) or that I am "infected" by British thought is not only laughable, but, it stirs up anti-British sentiment or relies on old anti-British prejudice. And I Am Not Happy With That At All.

God, I wish I was articulate at this time of the day.

[TheVeryThing]

I almost wish I hadn't read that article but I am not surprised, given the author.
I'm of the same generation and it is very clear to me that the oppression experienced by Irish women, as well as women and girls the world over, is based entirely on their biological sex and has fuck all to do with any feeling of gender identity.

[Annasgirl]

HI ALl, I linked to that on the other Irish thread on here.

I feel sick and angry - so sorry I opened the newspaper. I had thought of cancelling my subscription this week after the Suzanne Lynch article on the US Transwomen in Sport - but now I want to reply in the open to this nonsense. Have any of you thought of a letter wording? I might not get back to this until later - I have a presentation to write now and I really am not in the best frame of mind for it!!!!

[Annasgirl]

Oh and yes @FionaMacCool and @TheVeryThing - I too am of that generation.

[3timeslucky]

@FionaMacCool If that's you inarticulate I am in awe!

I'm another of that generation and nodding my head to everything you've said. The framing of women's rights in a xenophobic/anti-British framework is a worrying low. The idea that voting for ME or Repeal were a vote for Self-ID is delusionary. Every discussion I see on this issue makes clear that the population knew nothing about the existence of the legislation and that remains true for many even now. When you consider the garbage that makes the headlines it raises a lot of questions as to how and why there was no media discussion of the issue in advance of it passing into legislation.

Women are being thrown under the bus here to a deafening chorus of self-congratulatory back-patting by the wokerati. I am engaged, terrified and sad in equal measure.

[XXSex]

I read that article this morning. I was also at the The conference and what said in the article isn’t true at all!! I hope the IT give a right to reply just as the independent needed to after the hit piece on LGBA. It’s almost libellous that piece

[irishfeminist]

It is actually libellous. If she were to accuse the group of, say, racism, she would need to provide some actual evidence.

[saltedcaramelchocolate]

The comments on that article are excellent.

[notyourhandmaid]

No one voted for self-ID. The legislation was passed by a committee shortly after same-sex marriage was voted for and was presented as 'another win for LGBTQ rights' rather than something separate. It had been in the works for quite some time and was originally intended to facilitate Lydia Foy and others who had undergone full surgical transitions. The dismantling of any kind of oversight was not publicly known.

The idea that transwomen were involved in Repeal therefore they have somehow 'earned' their inclusion as literal women is such nonsense. Lots of people were involved in Repeal, including 99% of the women who EOT labels so perjoratively.

"If you take away their ability to refer to sex, they claim, women stop being able to talk about their oppression."
It's a pretty strong claim, though, Emer, unlike the 'transphobia' one later in this article.

Disgusted at this.

[3timeslucky]

Nowhere does Emer address the issues she identifies as raised by British feminists in relation to the idea of self-ID (the same issues reaised by Irish feminists and feminists across the world). She just lists them and moves on.

Her claim that Self-ID was heralded in "with little opposition and much celebration" is a blatant lie. Much celebration was what we saw with Repeal and Marriage Equality. There was no national response to Self-ID because we didn't bloody well know it had happened.

There was no transphobia at that conference. Of course, if you think centring women and women's safety is transphobic then that's what you'd see. It doesn't make it true.

If Self-ID in Ireland was problem free none of these threads would exist, women wouldn't be writing to their TDs, the discussions on Irish parenting sites wouldn't exist, the arguments on Twitter wouldn't exist, TCDFFT wouldn't exist, the IWL wouldn't exist, RadCailini wouldn't exist, the outrage at the erasure of the word "women" from the CervicalSmear documentation wouldn't have happened. The vested interests are in trying to make it appear that Self-ID is problem free and consequence free.

[irishfeminist]

It's an absolute nonsense that transwomen had anything to do with repealing the 8th amendment. A tiny handful hopped on it as the issue du jour and managed to make it as much about them as possible. Their contribution was so slight as to be almost nonexistent.

Also, just want to add: Emer O'Toole hasn't lived in Ireland for over a decade, so it's a bit rich for her to be complaining about us being captured by those evil UK based outside influences.

[purplepizzabunny]

One prominent TRA, who shall remain nameless, posts constantly that he campaigned for repeal. A FB check shows a photo taken in early May 2018 where he said he was going out for the first time. This was three weeks before the goddamn referendum where the tide had definitely turned. I am sick to the back teeth of being told that we have to support trans idealogy as the trans crew supported repeal.

[3timeslucky]

It doesn't matter if transpeople or trans activists supported Repeal. It should be expected that they did, just like others in the population because it was the right thing to do. They don't get a special award. The majority of the electorate supported Repeal and made it happen. What we got nothing in return is a more decent society. Same goes for transpeople. They get nothing more or less than a better world to live in.

Whether they ever have to face the decision to have a termination is neither here nor there. None of the men who voted for a Repeal will ever have to face that decision. They voted to Repeal on behalf of the women who might one day face that decision. The same applies within the trans community.

Sometimes you do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because you intend to use it as a bargaining chip.

[XXSex]

@saltedcaramelchocolate

The comments on that article are excellent.

The people of Ireland are walking up!! The comments are very well reasoned and extremely well informed.

[miri1985]

The letters to the editor have been published about that piece, all brilliantly written. Surprisingly none in favour of what O'Toole wrote, usually they at least try to balance it but maybe no one wrote in to defend it.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/feminists-must-avoid-transphobia-trap-1.4508914

[XXSex]

Wow those letters are very impressive

[MadamBatty]

Excellent to see those letters. I’ll even buy a copy of the IT to keep them.

[FionaMacCool]

miri thank you, thank you for linking to those letters.

I raked through my Irish Times app this morning to see responses to that article; there are 259 (currently) comments below the line. Most (maybe 80%) were critical of the piece, of the Irish Times lack of balance, and of the underhand way the legislation was brought in. Many noted the stirring of anti-British feeling also contained there-in.

I have never written to the paper, never been the sort of person who thrives on the drama of outrage. However, I have thought a lot about this issue. I work with vulnerable children. I have a responsibility to my own daughters.
Niamh Smyth will hear from me; I will buy the IT today ( I have an online subscription but I want to make a point); and I will write to them to ask for a counterbalancing article.

[Annasgirl]

Yes I agree - I have an online subscription but will buy it today and also write a letter to Niamh Smyth.

[notyourhandmaid]

The letters are excellent. to any MNers who wrote in.