Page 4 | What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

Spiegelx · 04/03/2021 16:20

I don't believe in it. I have never given a moment's thought to what I "identify" as. I just am. Plus no-one is really that interested. It's not interesting. It's navel gazing.

nocoolnamesleft · 04/03/2021 16:20

My sex is female. I am an adult female, so I am a woman. My biology tells me this. I am oppressed for being a woman. Gender is a tool of my oppression, used by the patriarchy to keep me down.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/03/2021 16:20

@yeahbutnaw

Cisgender is an accurate term.

The existence of Tall women, Black women, Muslim women, and Trans women doesn't negate my existence.

They're just adjectives. I've got no idea why everyone is so offended by them.

Do you see the gaps there... between the word tall and women, between black and women, between Muslim and women.

Do you see how you didn't put one between cis and gender.

Thinlk about what the difference is! And then you'll see why the only error you made was to put a gap between trans and woman!

Language really does matter. Bastardising it has consequences - see the MoJ court case!

NoSquirrels · 04/03/2021 16:20

Transgender means you do not identify with your birth sex. We used to say transsexual, which was much clearer all round, really. I’m not entirely 100% sure how gender snuck in, to be honest. Gender is basically regressive nonsense.

But that’s my personal opinion which I’m happy to keep to myself, insofar as I am never going to deliberately ‘misgender’ someone to prove a point. I’m quite happy for individuals to identify themselves however they choose, and would address them or treat them as such. But not to the point of agreeing in my head or heart that a transgender woman is a biological woman, or a transgender man is a biological man, which is where this all seems to head to. Why so important that we must all agree ‘trans women are women’? How does it help trans women in any way?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2021 16:21

Also, why do you call yourself a woman if the term technically is a gender term.

No it isn't. Gender is a social construct. Woman simply means adult human female.

Honestlywtf · 04/03/2021 16:21

TheBuffster · 04/03/2021 16:21

Also by using the word cis you're implying some sort of privilege. Women are oppressed and not privileged. Although some women will escape the worst oppression due to class and race, women cannot escape sex based oppression and to imply we're at the top of the pyramid is inaccurate and ignorant.

SquishySquirmy · 04/03/2021 16:21

I can only speak for myself.

My sex is female.
I grew up resenting the narrow stereotypes associated with women and girls. These stereotypes shift, change with time and place, and mean different things to different people. Like anyone, I meet these stereotypes in some ways and in other ways I am entirely at odds with them. I don't want to be forced to define myself by how well I conform to other people's stereotypes. I have read a lot about gender and have yet to see a definition of gender which is not yet another set of stereotypes.

I have a female body and I am an adult - therefore I am a woman.
I also have a personality - this had nothing to do with feeling "womanly".
I don't have a sense of gender identity, and if I was forced into choosing one it would not match my sex.
Therefore I am not "Cis".

I am a woman.

JulesJules · 04/03/2021 16:21

@sofakingg00d

I am a woman.

I am not a subset of woman.

I do not have a gender and find it absolutely fascinating that to misgender a trans person is "literal violence" but to misgender me is absolutely fine. It's just unbelievably hypocritical for you to come on here and tell women what they should call themselves. I'll decide that for myself thanks.

This is my position too.

TheMerrickBoy · 04/03/2021 16:22

@ASugar

Many people have stated that they don't agree or believe in gender. Although I disagree I can respect that decision. An additional question I'd like to ask is then why do we have to know the gender of our child? Shop in stores where clothes are described by gender? Etc.

Also, why do you call yourself a woman if the term technically is a gender term. By the way, scientists and medical professionals have determined this.

In each one of your uses of 'gender' after the first, you're using 'gender' where the appropriate word would be 'sex'.

MedusasBadHairDay · 04/03/2021 16:22

do we have to know the gender of our child? Shop in stores where clothes are described by gender? Etc.

We don't.

Sex is relevant, especially regarding medical information.

If you believe that the typical FWR user supports the use of gender segregated toys and clothes you'd be wrong. We are very much in favour of children of both sexes having access to the same clothes and toys.

AlexaShutUp · 04/03/2021 16:22

I don't particularly care about the term cisgender if I'm honest. It doesn't offend me personally, though I understand why others don't like it.

What I would genuinely like to understand from you, OP, is what "identifying with being women" actually means in practical terms. This is a genuine question because I am honestly at a loss to understand what you, and others, are talking about when you say this.

I am a woman, but I define myself as such on the basis of my biological sex. I don't understand the concept of women with penises or men with vaginas. I am not being goady here, or trying to offend. I simply don't know what the terms men or women mean if they are not grounded in biological reality. How would you define these terms?

FWIW, I honestly don't know what "gender identity" or "gender expression" means. I don't think I have a gender identity. You say that makes me non-binary, but I am definitely a woman - based on my biology, as outlined above. I hope that "gender identity" does not refer to tired and outdated stereotypes about men and women, but I honestly can't think of anything else that it might refer to.

I am not here for a fight. I want trans people to be happy and supported in living their lives authentically. I genuinely don't care how people dress. I don't care what names they use. I don't really care what pronouns they use, if it is important to them. I just don't understand why someone who is biologically male would believe that they were a woman, or why other men or women would buy into that belief (and vice versa re biological women who believe that they are men). And because I genuinely don't understand the concept of gender, I find it really hard to understand why people would argue against safe spaces for women that are segregated on the basis of biological sex, not gender. To me, it seems that women are at risk because of their sex, rather than their gender, and therefore, they will be safer in single sex spaces.

Please could you try to explain exactly what this essence of "being a woman" (or "being a man") is, so that I can better understand what it means when you say that people identify as one or the other? Like I said, I am not being goady, I do genuinely want to understand, because it all feels like the Emperor's New Clothes to me right now.

nothingcomestonothing · 04/03/2021 16:22

I am a woman. I didn't choose to be one, and I can't choose not to be one, it's just a fact of my biology. 'Woman' is not a gender term, and scientists and medical professionals have not determined it is, it is simply the word for adult human female. Please provide evidence if I am mistaken about that.

I do not believe in your religion, so I don't define myself in its terms, any more than I'd define myself as a believer or an infidel. If you want to believe in gender you are free to do so, but don't assume that makes it a real thing.

Jarnsaxa · 04/03/2021 16:23

It's strange isn't it that we as humans have managed to invent words to describe the female of every other species but our own. There's cow, mare, sow, doe, hen, vixen, bitch, Queen, nanny and others I'm sure.
But no word to describe mature female homo sapien.
hmmm.

McCanne · 04/03/2021 16:23

I don't believe in gender and don't identify with it. The fact that you know many women object to it suggests that you know why.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 04/03/2021 16:23

This reply has been deleted

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2021 16:24

That's what the term cisgender means.

No it doesn't, because FTM trans people are also biological females.

Original poster

ASugar · 04/03/2021 16:24

@TheBuffster very interesting point.

Personally I find that being cisgender is a privilage. Similarly to being hetrosexual. To clarify, that doesn't mean all cisgender people are privilaged by societies terms, but it does mean we aren't discriminated against for not having gender dysphoria and for our gender transition. Where as transgender people are.

OP posts:

Winesalot · 04/03/2021 16:25

The existence of Tall women, Black women, Muslim women, and Trans women doesn't negate my existence.

They're just adjectives. I've got no idea why everyone is so offended by them.

I am sure that I have seen some posters ask that their race not be used as a political point scorer.

TuesdayinSeptember · 04/03/2021 16:25

It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize

Could you explain what it means when used as a medical term and examples of it in NHS use? TIA. I'm curious as I've worked in sexual health and have never seen it used

yeahbutnaw · 04/03/2021 16:25

@TheBuffster

Also by using the word cis you're implying some sort of privilege. Women are oppressed and not privileged. Although some women will escape the worst oppression due to class and race, women cannot escape sex based oppression and to imply we're at the top of the pyramid is inaccurate and ignorant.

Does "straight" woman imply the same thing?

Joeblack066 · 04/03/2021 16:25

@ASugar

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

I’m with you in all of the above but feel we will be in the minority here.

Glamflimfloogety · 04/03/2021 16:25

[quote ASugar]@Glamflimfloogety

I would just like to point out I have not and will not be reporting a single reply. Even if you insult me and misgender me. I want to hear peoples opinions.[/quote]
Hi @ASugar

Apologies if I've misgendered you anywhere in my replies. I've gone back through them and can't see anywhere that I've specifically referred to you. I can see I've used the general 'you' as in people in general. In fact I cannot see anywhere in my replies where I have specifically stated your gender or alluded to it. But again I do apologise if I've unintentionally misgendered you

Original poster

ASugar · 04/03/2021 16:26

@Ereshkigalangcleg I understand that. However being female doesn't always mean you are a woman. Many people who are born female don't then identify as being a woman. As gender and sex are separate.

OP posts:

NoSquirrels · 04/03/2021 16:26

@ASugar

Many people have stated that they don't agree or believe in gender. Although I disagree I can respect that decision. An additional question I'd like to ask is then why do we have to know the gender of our child? Shop in stores where clothes are described by gender? Etc.

Also, why do you call yourself a woman if the term technically is a gender term. By the way, scientists and medical professionals have determined this.

I don’t know what you mean by this.

No one needs to know the ‘gender’ of their child. You find out its sex, at your scan or upon its birth.

Shops organise themselves by gender because society divides us that way. As I said, it’s regressive nonsense.

Why do you keep saying gender/woman is a medical term? Do you have an example?