What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

It isn't necessary.

Woman = adult human female
Transwoman = adult human male who wishes to be seen as and treated by the world at large as if they were an adult human female

Therefore there are women and transwomen. Cis is not needed.

I am, indeed, Spartacus.

I am a woman, an adult human female. My biological sex is female.

The group to which I belong is 'Women'. We are easily identifiable by large gametes, XX chromosomes. We look, talk and behave like women - that is, we look, talk and behave in ranges of ways that might or might not suggest that we are female but we are always, and still, women.

I do not need to qualify the term that describes me ('woman') with another word. 'Cisgender' is extremely offensive. Don't call me that. Call me what I am. Woman.

I don’t feel I have a gender identity to match up or not with my biological sex. So it would be incorrect for me to be identified as cis.

I don't 'identify as a woman'. I am a woman. I don't have a special woman feeling in my pink glittery brain. It's offensive to me to suggest that I identify with the gender norms imposed on my sex, which is what the word 'cisgender' does. It's misogynistic bollocks.

I am a woman. And I know that because of my female sexed body, not because of the genderfeelz.

a) I do not belong to a group that is a subset of women. I do not have a choice in belonging to that sex class and woman is the name for an adult human who is female.

b) I have no 'gender identity'. I have a body that is sexed and a personality shaped by my experiences and interests and some of that is shaped by my having certain needs relating to my body. I have fought all my life to not be 'stereotyped' despite the discrimination I have received because of said stereotypes being attributed to me and due to the needs of my body and what that means to work, sport etc.

c) I don't conform to people's gender expectation and frankly, I don't know anyone who does. Therefore, stating that people's gender conforms to the sex that they are born is meaningless to the majority of the world. Completely meaningless except to those who need to describe gender in such a way.

You're being a bit disingenuous in what you say about 'the NHS' recognising the term cisgender. Some parts do recognise it, but it is by no means universally accepted as having any basis in science or reality. Also 'medical professionals' tend to recognise the existence of biological sex, i.e there are circumstances in which it is important to recognise that these men with vaginas that you speak of are biologically female and therefore need female-orientated care.

It is also rather unfair to say to people who don't believe in gender identity that they are 'agender' - they've just told you they don't believe in it! I personally don't accept that it is true that everyone has a gender identity and I haven't seen any evidence to contradict this belief. I am a woman because I physically female. I don't like being called 'cisgender' or 'agender' or anything else, because I don't have a gender identity.

What's the point in it? Everyone knows what woman and trans woman mean I don't get why its necessary to make it so complicated?

Cisgender just means you are not transgender.

And woman means not transwoman.

HTH.

It’s a new subset for women that I don’t feel is necessary. I also think gender is a social construct and sex is absolute.

@PronounssheRa

why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Here is your mistake, you assume women identify with gender. Not all do.

^^This. I am a female (sex term) identifying with being a woman (sex term).

I do not identify with woman (gender term).

Are you taking part in some sort of cissing competion OP?

It’s like a person of faith labelling another person with a term, “brother” “sinner” or whatever, when the person in question does not share that belief so doesn’t recognise the system that labels them as such.... “I’m not a......., I’m just me”

You might identify as the full moon, but perhaps not entirely truthful.

I mean, you don't like us using 'real women' which is essentially what cis-woman means, so why not do away with both and just use women, and transwomen.

It's a bit like me saying I don't support Arsenal, and you saying "Ah! A Chelsea fan, I see!" and then getting agitated when I try to explain that not only do I not support Arsenal or Chelsea, I don't have any interest in football at all, and am not a fan of any team.

(I lie, of course. Arsenal all the way.)

I don't have a gender identity, so I don't have anything that might or might not "match" with my biologically sexed body.

I have spend decades and a great deal of self-introspection working this out. I would like this to be respected.

If women want to call themselves "cis", I find it baffling, but eh, their choice. What I will not accept is that any women, whether they describe themselves as "cis" or not, has any structural privilege over transwomen.

Hopefully you will still read replies to the thread you started, even if you won’t reply? Seems an odd way to have a discussion.

For cis to work, you (general you) have to believe in gender. I don’t, therefore I don’t need cis. I don’t ‘identify’ as anything, I am a woman because I am an adult, human female. That’s it.

I find it amusing that you think this means I am actually trans then... but hang on, are trans people saying they don’t want to be referred to as trans any more? This seems so circular and confusing.

There doesn’t need to be a new way to describe someone as ‘not trans’. Woman and man, female and male work just fine.

What I find most frustrating is that you and others who want to convince us that all of this is actually the case cannot explain in plain language what a woman is, or what a man is, or what a gender identity is, without reverting to gender stereotypes.

The last day or so there have been so many assertions made that I’m not sure there is a consensus on the gender believers side - sex is a spectrum, gender is binary, but then also non binary and fluid (suggesting a spectrum).

I still want to know what I have in common with a trans woman.

Oh. And I have seen a couple of references to the 30,000 scientific papers that refer to 'c*s' or that prove it, or just use the term making it 'official', would you happen to be able to link us up to any of those please.

I would really like to have a read through some.

Whats wrong with it?

Well I don't like nor believe in gender stereotypes.

Gender identity = gender stereotypes. One does not exist without the other. Gender identity reinforces and legitimises gender stereotypes as being something innate.

Cisgender therefore = agrees with genderstereotypes and believes they match their gender stereotype.

Now I do not align with gender identity or gender stereotypes.

So I'm definitely not going to accept being called cisgender because thats offensive and restrictive to me.

Why is it a problem for you that I stick my fingers up at cisgender? Why are you so desparate to label me and my identity as cisgender?

Why am I not allowed to self identify? Why must I conform to your identity system? Why am I not free to merely be who I want to be? Why must I be oppressed by cisgender nonsense.

It is offensive, demeaning and patronising.

And yes I mean this completely sincerely and completely seriously. This is not a post trying to be ironic.

I find the whole shebang grossly regressive and backward. It find it misgyony dressed up in propganda to sell to a naive and vulnerable population who are obsessed with imagine and fitting in, rather than just 'being'.

I do not need validation. I'm way to old. I grew out of that neediness. Thank god. Its so utterly life sucking and pointless.

And I'm a hundred times happier and better for it. I have nothing to prove to anyone else. If you don't like me, fine by me.

This also does not mean I have had an empathy bypass either though. Or that I do not believe passionately about rights and the importance of protecting the vulnerable. It just means I don't have time for people who fail to understand basic safeguarding principles and instead prefer naval gazing blinkered nonsense.

@jerriblank

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Mumsnet had the audacity to defend themselves on twitter, saying debate was welcome as long as it's respectful. The activists have taken it upon themselves to try and catch out posters and the mods to prove Mumsnet is a hotbed of transphobia

It's funny how when it comes to silencing us and correcting our wrong think there's absolutely no confusion about what a women is

I'd probably be ok with using it on a forum for transgender people, however this is a mainstream forum and most people don't recognise it or believe in the ideology behind it. Therefore it's rude to try and impose your terminology onto people who just aren't interested.
Nice try though, there have been attempts to force the general public to accept being called cis for years. Nope, we like the words we already have.
See also latinx, womxn, folx, and all the other made up words.i

Because I have gone the vast majority of my 40 years on earth (and 20 years in the mental health service) having never heard the term cis.
Because I am a woman as evidenced by my primary and secondary sex characteristics and I think that word-woman is and has been for a very long time perfectly adequate to describe my sex class. Just as man, trans woman and trans man are perfectly adequate to describe distinct groups of people based on scientific and psychological criteria.
Because I think language is important and I disagree with the blanket changing of accepted language for inclusion of a tiny minority.
B

Cisgender just means you are not transgender

Funnily enough so does man and woman