What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

Well I could argue that we are cis women

Well you could argue that. For yourself. Biology doesn't agree with you though. And I much prefers facts over feelings.

Woman: Adult human female.

At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if the OP identifies as a cis woman but they are actually a trans woman. Hence labouring the point on ‘identify as a cis woman’.

Is anyone else getting fed up of the OP responding constantly with "no. Incorrect."

Christ "I wish it to be so, therefore it is so".

All is this is founded on the things people just wish were the case.

Well I wish I had a million pounds.

Hence, is it India W who said i'm a female, or cis, I can't remember.

Both I think.

Someone who uses she/her or she/they pronounce and identifies with being female or a woman.

You can't 'identify' with being a female - it's a physical reality, you either are a male or a female (including people with VSDs).
Use of pronouns is irrelevant. There are transwomen who don't care about them, you know. And defining 'woman' as 'identifies as being a woman' is a meaningless circularity.

That's all completely void of any real meaning

However if they want to refer to themselves as women without having to state they are trans women, they have the same right as we do to do so.

Obviously. You can refer to yourself as a dog or a cat if you want to; it still doesn’t make you one.

There is no such thing as “misgendering”. It’s just a bullshit term for those who need serious mental health help to come to terms with themselves and be happy as who they actually are, not who they wish they were.

Maybe we should start reporting these misgendering hate crimes on the police hate hotline. It happens so much.

No, it just means I do not recognise gender in any way, shape or form. I don't know anyone personally who uses the word "cisgender"

Me neither. It's meaningless to about 95% of the population.

Well I could argue that we are cis women.

Unsuccessfully, this thread would suggest.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

No, it just means I do not recognise gender in any way, shape or form. I don't know anyone personally who uses the word "cisgender"

Me neither. It's meaningless to about 95% of the population.

Thank Christ. Let's hope the day never comes when it's been forced into the mainstream.

@PheasantPlucker1

No ASugar you can argue you are a ciswoman.

You dont have the right to enforce your belief on any of us, or misgender anyone.

As has been pointed out, misgendering us is not just rude, its an actual hate crime.

Yes. For some reason the op is very insistent we conform to their world view.

Many of us reject it out right and that should be heard

@Cokie3

Well said! That's what I've noticed too (and admittedly until 2 years ago I was an advocate for Trans rights and called people 'terfs' - blush I feel so ashamed looking back, it was this site that informed me and made me do a 180, so thank you Mumsnet!).

What I take away from this thread, and all the others that have been started in the same vein recently, is that those on the side of being gender critical have strong convictions, well thought out arguments, and statistics to cite to back up what they say. Those on the TRA side seem to make this rubbish up as they go along. What they say is incoherent and twists and turns to fit their ideology. The words and terminology they use have been stripped of all meaning and trying to follow what they say is like fighting to hold a bar of soap in the shower.
Well said! That's what I've noticed too (and admittedly until 2 years ago I was an advocate for Trans rights and called people 'terfs' - blush I feel so ashamed looking back, it was this site that informed me and made me do a 180, so thank you Mumsnet!).

I changed my views due to the sheer volume of facts and well-researched, well-thought out arguments on the Gender Critical side. It was the sheer volume of facts, the looking at statistics of the abuse of women in prisons by transwomen inmates, the forcing women to shave men's genitals in spas and clinics, the complete disregard for Muslim women who wear the Hijab in public but not in these women's spaces, the utter disregard for vulnerable women and vulnerable girls. Not one of the TRAs has been able to give a convincing argument (re the spa and the male suing them, they give no answer whatsoever). Not one.

I literally did a 180 overnight. I really did. I felt so embarrassed and ashamed that I was so ignorant to the harm I was promoting.

Honestly, don't feel like that. This movement has created an entire generation of feminists. I have acquired late onset feminism, as a result of this issue.

When the male sex can say sex doesn't exist, fuck me, does it expose a whole lot of stuff entirely dependent on being the female sex.

I'm so bored of people coming over to this board to educate us...

I'm an adult human female.

I'm a Woman.

I'm not cis.

No debate.

If you are devoting a lot of your time to wanting to be the opposite sex, there has to be criteria. I don't feel like this, I feel like that. I don't want this, I want that.

It never gets answered, does it?

@PheasantPlucker1

No ASugar you can argue you are a ciswoman.

You dont have the right to enforce your belief on any of us, or misgender anyone.

As has been pointed out, misgendering us is not just rude, its an actual hate crime.

I agree. However in my opinion if you don't allow trans women to identify and be women then the term cisgender will continue to be used for women born female.

Someone who uses she/her or she/they pronounce and identifies with being female or a woman

And you want this vague, self referencing, non-definition to be used in legislation or to govern decisions that impact directly on sex based protected rights?

@Sillyduckseverywhere

I'm so bored of people coming over to this board to educate us...

I'm an adult human female.

I'm a Woman.

I'm not cis.

No debate.

Okay and...

Trans women are women.

Not trans.

No debate.

It will be used by those with an agenda.

It won’t be used by women.

Someone who uses she/her or she/they pronounce and identifies with being female or a woman.

But we are zillions of posts in, and you are entirely incapable of describing what that means!

Only if we let it and accept it which women patently don't want to.

So some people may use the term, others will not.

*Okay and...

Trans women are women.

Not trans.

No debate.*

No. Incorrect.

I'm a woman. An adult human female.
However you can call yourself anything you flamin well please, doesn't make it a fact.

The massive entitlement is what is flabbergasting. Telling women what to think about themselves, who they are and how they can talk about their experiences.

All while talking loudly over any women who speaks.

Misogyny and bigotry at it’s finest.

Woman who wants to name her own experience= bigot who should be ignored

Man who wants to name his own experience= Hero who should be listened to.

It is the same old sexist story. They don’t even bother to hide it.

identifies with being female or a woman.

What is the criteria?