What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

Transgender people have the highest rate of being murdered.

This is another nonsense that people believe just because trans activists say it as a way to push the "most oppressed in the world" narrative.

No they don't. And you should check statements like that before perpetuating them. There is a high rate of murder of trans sex workers in Brazil (bearing in mind sex workers in general are at a greater than average risk of murder), and obviously that, and all murders, need prosecuting and preventing.

But the "most murdered category of people" claim is a lie that has been repeatedly debunked.

@LadyGAgain

I was born female and I identify as female. I am a woman. If you are born male and identify as a woman, you are transgender. Don't make me change what I call myself.

This just aboit sums it up for me. What's wrong with transgender being called transgender? Why does it mean I've got to call myself something else? I am a woman. Someone else's self definition does not make that any different.

Plus I don’t have an “argument”. I don’t like the term cis being applied to me, I find it superfluous and offensive. That’s not up for debate or argument in any way.

What I take away from this thread, and all the others that have been started in the same vein recently, is that those on the side of being gender critical have strong convictions, well thought out arguments, and statistics to cite to back up what they say. Those on the TRA side seem to make this rubbish up as they go along. What they say is incoherent and twists and turns to fit their ideology. The words and terminology they use have been stripped of all meaning and trying to follow what they say is like fighting to hold a bar of soap in the shower.

I am a woman. I will always be a woman.

So am I, and same.
Doesn't mean I can't be aware of c*s privilege though.

For centuries up til now, sex and gender meant the same thing - even recently with Gender Reveal parties (has anyone yet seen 'Sex Reveal' parties), gender studies (women's rights) etc. It has only been recently that gender has had a separate meaning to sex.

"labrengun
OP - do you put as much effort into arguing this point with men?*
Yes. I do.

If not more as cis men are the ones to hurt us and oppress us the most along with oppress the LGBTQ community.*"

But cismen can be members of the LGBTQ community - they are oppressing themselves?

Have just googled to check, and find I am right - gender was generally used including in scientific communities up till the 1960s / 1970s to mean biological sex versus the sex act. It then started to morph into the identity definitions being constantly created today.

So until comparatively recently, sex and gender were considered the same thing.

Why is identifying as a woman become such a issue for people. Why are people hell bent on trying to get rid of it

If you identified 'with' women, rather than 'as', then you might understand.

ASugar

Again, you said

Femininity and masculinity are forms of gender expression and don't determine someones gender.

Which I get.

But what is the thing that determines gender?

Think about it.

With every single word in the English language at your disposal, and a creative mind, think.

What could it be?

Exactly, cokie3. Gender was simply an alternative word for people who didn't like saying S-E-X in polite conversation.

Mockolate am I correct in saying you are cis? If so, that makes about 3 of you on this thread who admit to having cis priviledge.

The rest of us dont, as were not cis. So why are you, as the self confessed priviledged ones, lecturing those of us you say have less rights than you?

Really it's quite a compromise to call born males who identify at female as transwomen. But we do. Out of respect. If the next plan is to misgender women until they give in and refer to transwomen as women, we could just go back to refering to them as what they really are... How does that feel?

‘Cis privilege’ is another way of framing women as oppressors and stop them campaigning for women’s right.

When the gender pay gap is massive, women still die in childbirth because of an infantilising medical system, when women’s bodies are still marketed as a product and women are routinely trafficked into this country for the sex trade.

Yes, massive privilege.

My medically mismanaged miscarriage was not a privilege. My sexual assault was not a privilege, my poor maternity pay was not a privilege. The fact that my pension is half that of my husband’s because of child rearing duties is not a fucking privilege.

There is no such this as cis privilege, only misogynists who want to blame women for all society’s ills.

So until comparatively recently, sex and gender were considered the same thing.

Gender was just a polite euphemism, and confusingly is often still used as such.

Guidelines I've seen for writers of scientific papers now clarify that sex should be used to refer to biology, gender for social effects. Different journals may apply different house rules.

@PheasantPlucker1

ASugar If you want to argue gender expression and gender are different youre going to have to explain how.

You have to answer the question that no one has ever answered...

What is a female gender, and how is it different to a male one?

The woman gender identity doesn't mean you gender expression has to be feminine. It is just the use of she/her or she/they pronouns, to be identified as a woman and to be legally recognized as a woman. You don't have to be feminine to be a cis or trans woman. Feminine and masculine are gender expressions.

“Which I get.

But what is the thing that determines gender?

Think about it.

With every single word in the English language at your disposal, and a creative mind, think.

What could it be?“

is it a feeling? Because if it is

[quote ASugar]@Glamflimfloogety

I would just like to point out I have not and will not be reporting a single reply. Even if you insult me and misgender me. I want to hear peoples opinions.[/quote]
But yet, just as in your other two threads there are huge numbers of deletions. If you say it isn't you I'll believe you, but your threads seem to be attracting a lot of reports by someone or ones.

I think MN need to consider most of the deletions as NOT strikes, since the MN twitter account invited all mm followers to come over, the deletions for perfectly innocent statements are through the roof and we are being "cis"sed constantly.
Please tell us they aren't strikes.

Some are coordinating to try their hardest get us banned . MN you are being used by non-members to do their dirty work.

I have no idea what that even means.

The woman gender identity doesn't mean you gender expression has to be feminine. It is just the use of she/her or she/they pronouns, to be identified as a woman and to be legally recognized as a woman. You don't have to be feminine to be a cis or trans woman. Feminine and masculine are gender expressions.

If having a "woman gender identity" is just about pronouns what's the point in it? You make it sound so trivial and unnecessary. And if that's all it was then why not just get rid of pronouns and then we can end discrimination, right?

The woman gender identity doesn't mean you gender expression has to be feminine. It is just the use of she/her or she/they pronouns, to be identified as a woman and to be legally recognized as a woman. You don't have to be feminine to be a cis or trans woman. Feminine and masculine are gender expressions.

Yes they are.

But what you are saying here is how these individuals want to be addressed.

You're not saying why. What is it based on???

It can't possibly be, because I say so. So what is it ?

For centuries up til now, sex and gender meant the same thing - even recently with Gender Reveal parties (has anyone yet seen 'Sex Reveal' parties), gender studies (women's rights) etc. It has only been recently that gender has had a separate meaning to sex

I studied 'Women's Studies' in the 1980's as part of my degree. Gender studies is a very recent thing. It started to become more commonly used as a result of 'Queer Theory' -which really took off in the 1990's.

So "gender" has no definition?
And "Woman" has no meaning other than someone stating they are one

But yet, just as in your other two threads there are huge numbers of deletions. If you say it isn't you I'll believe you, but your threads seem to be attracting a lot of reports by someone or ones

Yes I noticed this.

@MimiDaisy11

The woman gender identity doesn't mean you gender expression has to be feminine. It is just the use of she/her or she/they pronouns, to be identified as a woman and to be legally recognized as a woman. You don't have to be feminine to be a cis or trans woman. Feminine and masculine are gender expressions.

If having a "woman gender identity" is just about pronouns what's the point in it? You make it sound so trivial and unnecessary. And if that's all it was then why not just get rid of pronouns and then we can end discrimination, right?

Exactly. What's the fucking point then?