What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

True thats why sex matters. You can change your gender but not your sex.

All transpeople no matter what their gender remain the sex they were born.

I don't believe we need a new word

@ASugar

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

Exactly. And that is precisely why trans women are not women.

"As someone who identifies as a woman, I am honestly confused as to why so many males (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term insert heavily offensive term which is widely rejected by transpeople as akin to 'literal violence'?"

To pose such a question to a forum aimed predominantly at the trans community would be, at best, a questionable thing to do. So why are these questions always, always coming the other way without any respect for the answers or the sense of identity of an entire class of people? I've been reading them time and time again over the past few months and it's exhausting.

Not all trans people will support the views of those 'setting the agenda' so to speak, just as many women may not agree with those who feel the term 'cis' is offensive.
Yet it appears while it's fine for a minority of one community to speak for the whole and have this taken as fact, until women can collectively agree their position between themselves and are able to provide an acceptable reason for that decision, the stance and feelings of any individual woman is unimportant, open to question, or wrong.

I've seen it said many times on these boards but discussions like this really show up how women are the only group unable to set out their own terms and boundaries for how they are refereed to and respected without this constant questioning.

OP, there are now pages of people telling you why the term 'cis' is offensive to them, why they disagree with its meaning and why they do not ascribe to that as a descriptor for themselves. Can you see that continuing to use this term in what you believe to be inclusive and kind way, may be causing upset to women, and that isn't ok?

@ASugar

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

So here's the question.

If gender is different to sex, how come identifying as a different gender, slides into being giving rights based on sex?

Clueless. Utterly, utterly clueless.

@PheasantPlucker1 incorrect. Femininity and masculinity are forms of gender expression and don't determine someones gender.

@ASugar

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

Absolutely. I have a sex: female, therefore I am a woman. I don't identify with a gender, therefore I am not cis. You don't seem to be getting that the majority of posters here 100% agree that sex and gender are not the same thing. The former is immutable; the latter is oppressive.

If you are going to persist in transplaining to us how “privaleged” we cis types are could you please at least learn to spell it

Transplain?
Urgh.
Resorting to insults and picking at someone's spelling doesn't exactly help your "argument."

[quote ASugar]@PheasantPlucker1 incorrect. Femininity and masculinity are forms of gender expression and don't determine someones gender.[/quote]
I know this is the current teaching, but do you understand it, OP?

Cos I don’t. I’m averagely intelligent and it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

How do you 'force someone to be referred' to as something?
Do you mean force other people to refer to that person as something? This is generally regarded as compelled speech. Is this what you support?

ASugar If you want to argue gender expression and gender are different youre going to have to explain how.

You have to answer the question that no one has ever answered...

What is a female gender, and how is it different to a male one?

@Cokie3

Misgendering and questioning someone's gender (depending on how it is done) can be illegal.

So calling someone 'cis' when they don't identify as one is misgendering and is therefore illegal. Hereth endeth the point of the thread.

I agree with this. I don't accept gender ideology and I don't feel that I have a gender identity that aligns with my sex. Therefore if you call me cisgender you are assigning a label on me that I do not identify with.

If you want to use the term cisgender you will have to first check that the people you are describing really are cisgender. Otherwise you are misgendering them.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views.

I don't understand this , isn't it just way of lobbing a grenade and running away, just the usual plop but phrased in more polite terms. ?

@Cokie3

Misgendering and questioning someone's gender (depending on how it is done) can be illegal.

So calling someone 'cis' when they don't identify as one is misgendering and is therefore illegal. Hereth endeth the point of the thread.

Bravo!

“Gender and sex are not the same thing.”

Duh. Ones sexist bollocks and the other is scientific fact. We know this. In fact it is the entire bloody point of being Gender Critical.

I've not stated that they should. We only should if trans women are being forced to be referred to as trans women when they want to be identified as women. Then there wouldn't be a need for the word as much.

Ahh, so if you don't get what you want you'll misgender us until you do. I see. You might be waiting a while forever

If a transgender woman said the term woman is all they used to define themselves, that would also be within their right. Agree or disagree?

Well it's within their right to the extent that no one can stop another person saying and thinking whatever they like. I can pick up an apple and call it a banana, and if anyone questions me I am "within my right" to say "well that's what I call a banana".

It wouldn't be correct though, and most people would be pretty confused.

And then there is the issue that with transwomen it brings up other issues. What does it mean for their patients if they are a medical professional and they have patients who request a female doctor?

What does it mean for the inmates of the women's prison if they commit a crime and are sent to prison?

If we are talking about history and saying "women weren't allowed to vote in the 19th century" or "women weren't allowed to compete in the decathlon at the Olympics in the 1980s" , the transwoman obviously isn't included in that, are they, so it would be pretty weird and self-defeating if they didn't clarify that they are trans.

OP do you believe in Transracialism? Do you believe that
Rachel Dolezal has the right to claim to be black?

If not, why not?

[quote ASugar]@PheasantPlucker1 incorrect. Femininity and masculinity are forms of gender expression and don't determine someones gender.[/quote]
Ok.

So gender expression is clothes, make up, hair? Right? Things typically coded masculine or feminine, based on male or female.

Give me one thing, just one thing, that constitutes gender that's not based on those things.

I am a woman. I will always be a woman. There is no need to change the term.

Femininity and masculinity are forms of gender expression and don't determine someones gender.

Ok so what makes a male a woman then?
Please dont say a feeling. Thats just silly.
What is it that makes a man go "nope I am a woman now"?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Transgender people have the highest rate of being murdered.

Untrue. Actually, a murder victim in the U.K. is statistically more likely to have been killed by a trans person than to be one. These are small numbers we are dealing with.

2007-current

Murders by trans people - 13
Murdered trans people - 8

One of those murdered transwomen was murdered by another transwoman, so presumably not murdered for being trans.

And if you are trans, you are statistically less likely to be murdered in the UK than if you are not trans.

There was a Trans Day of Remembrance in the UK last year, despite no trans people having been unlawfully killed in the UK during 2020 at all.

Meanwhile, the murders of women stepped up from 2 a week to 3 a week.

I've not stated that they should. We only should if trans women are being forced to be referred to as trans women when they want to be identified as women. Then there wouldn't be a need for the word as much.

Ahhh, I get it now.

So, until we all just refer to trans women as ‘women’, we’ll be subjected to being labelled by a term that we have already stated is offensive.

Well, that’s a no from me.

@Mockolate

If you are going to persist in transplaining to us how “privaleged” we cis types are could you please at least learn to spell it

Transplain?
Urgh.
Resorting to insults and picking at someone's spelling doesn't exactly help your "argument."

It’s not an insult, it’s what she’s doing. And the spelling I would let go if she wasn’t preaching at us and using it repeatedly.