Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

999 replies

ASugar · 04/03/2021 15:49

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

OP posts:
yeahbutnaw · 04/03/2021 18:11

Prior to 1868, there were no heterosexuals,” writes Blank. Neither were there homosexuals. It hadn’t yet occurred to humans that they might be “differentiated from one another by the kinds of love or sexual desire they experienced.” Sexual behaviours, of course, were identified and catalogued, and often times, forbidden. But the emphasis was always on the act, not the agent.

So what changed? Language.

you might find this interesting: www.bbc.com/future/article/20170315-the-invention-of-heterosexuality

Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 18:12

@PheasantPlucker1

OP was an RSE teacher on the last thread.
Yes as a part of my job I teach the relationship and sex education programme.
OP posts:
Datun · 04/03/2021 18:13

@adviceseekingnamechanger

Can't help but laugh at people who argue 'cis' women are privileged and also criticise women on FWR boards for not discussing 'real' feminist issues like FGM, gender pay gap, child marriage, abortion enough for their liking. Can you not put 2 and 2 together? Can you not see how TW are privileged over women? How many transwomen were murdered in the U.K. in 2020 compared to women? The answer is none versus 2 a week. There's your fucking privilege.
Great analysis.

Cis women are privileged. Think about that! And while you're thinking about that, simultaneously think about all the cis women who are horribly oppressed.

BlackSabbath · 04/03/2021 18:13

Men who want to live as women are free to do so. They can't claim womanhood. They can't claim what they have no experience of. They can be respected as people and can fight for awareness but they can't claim what they are not, the same way Rachel Dolezal cannot claim to be black because - and here's the big reveal - she isn't black

Exactly this. Couldn't have said it better

PheasantPlucker1 · 04/03/2021 18:13

@Whythesadface

I don't want this to happen. Can you imagine the out cry if all female Woman were to write CIS to denote we grew up with a female organs and were identified at Birth, as such Trans woman would be come woman and would instantly be identified as not a CISwoman, all a person would do is say are you CIS or not. So then Trans want the CIS label, and a new word would have to be found.
This is so true.

If we gave the "women" our spaces and created ciswomen loos, sports and refuges theyd be screaming in outrage and demanding to be known as ciswomen.

Yebanksandbraes · 04/03/2021 18:14

I agree OP. I am more than happy to use a variety of adjectives to describe myself, including cis/cisgender. Doesn't offend me, just a description that's all.

cravingthelook · 04/03/2021 18:14

What @LadyGAgain and @coldemortreturns said

TinselAngel · 04/03/2021 18:14

Can I ask a pedantic question?
What does the word 'check' mean in the oft used 'check your privilege'?

It means "Shut up, woman."

fallfallfall · 04/03/2021 18:16

i'm a woman not a "cis" of anything or anyone.
you can cis yourself away if you so choose.

Nellodee · 04/03/2021 18:16

Saying transwomen are transwomen is the compromise. The other two positions are transwomen are women or transwomen are men. Most of us are already meeting trans people in the middle.

Datun · 04/03/2021 18:16

@TinselAngel

Can I ask a pedantic question? What does the word 'check' mean in the oft used 'check your privilege'?

It means "Shut up, woman."

😂😂😂
SciFiScream · 04/03/2021 18:18

I don't identify as a woman. I identify as me.

I'm gender non conforming and always have been.

Using cis suggests I identify INTO the oppression and sexism and stereotypes associated with being female.
That'll be shining bright. Angry

Why should someone else get to tell me I'm cis? Deciding somebody else's gender identity is not allowed.

Kindlynow · 04/03/2021 18:18

@Yebanksandbraes

I agree OP. I am more than happy to use a variety of adjectives to describe myself, including cis/cisgender. Doesn't offend me, just a description that's all.
Agreed
PheasantPlucker1 · 04/03/2021 18:19

ASugar you teach sex education?

Ok. So imagine you have a 15year old in front if you. Agender.

They want to have sex with their demimale partner.

What advice do you give? Which contreception? And which should use it?

Which is at risk of pregnancy?

The next child is a boy and had been bleeding from the genitals for 5 days.
What advice do you have?

You cannot answer a single one of these questions, which is why I dont believe for a second you got paid to teach it.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 04/03/2021 18:19

What happens if women end up having to declare themselves "cis" before they can access services appropriate for their biological needs?

If the dystopia progresses might we end up here?

Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 18:19

@Nellodee

Saying transwomen are transwomen is the compromise. The other two positions are transwomen are women or transwomen are men. Most of us are already meeting trans people in the middle.
I am not transgender so I can't confirm this however that isn't a compromise. That is who they are. However if they want to refer to themselves as women without having to state they are trans women, they have the same right as we do to do so.
OP posts:
Cokie3 · 04/03/2021 18:20

If not more as cis men are the ones to hurt us

Transwomen, at least those who haven't had the operation, are still men with testicles that produce testosterone. They are as much a threat to us as men, because BOTH are men. TRAs are as dangerous as MRAs, why? Because they are both the same thing. Both (especially those advocating for transwomen) are advocating in favour of the patriarchy and against women.

Mockolate · 04/03/2021 18:20

What does the word 'check' mean in the oft used 'check your privilege'

It means to look at your privilege.

eg white privilege - the fact you can go out your door without being judged or discriminated against just because someone sets eyes on you and takes offence.

eg c**s privilege - identifying with the sex you were born and therefore all the privileges that come with that, eg passing, having body and gender match up.
Same as with above example, having the privileges of what goes with that, eg being able to go out your front door and not face the same discrimination people who are trans do.

It means "Shut up, woman."
Hmm

prrtnyao · 04/03/2021 18:22

Already deleting my posts. Oh well I can see from people responding that they agree with me. Mumsnet is losing the plot.

Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 18:22

@PheasantPlucker1

ASugar you teach sex education?

Ok. So imagine you have a 15year old in front if you. Agender.

They want to have sex with their demimale partner.

What advice do you give? Which contreception? And which should use it?

Which is at risk of pregnancy?

The next child is a boy and had been bleeding from the genitals for 5 days.
What advice do you have?

You cannot answer a single one of these questions, which is why I dont believe for a second you got paid to teach it.

Well I'd start of by asking if they are comfortable to be having sex, feel ready, have any contraception or has their partner got contraception and more. There are ways of going about it without degrading their gender identity.

If the next child has been bleeding from his genitals then he will be passed to a doctor with his prior medical information including his biological sex. And I'd just support him mentally with dealing with this issue.

OP posts:
TheRealMcKenna · 04/03/2021 18:23

Personally, I think there’s something deeply troubling and dishonest going on with those people who have so much empathy with trans people’s pain at being misgendered but just cannot respect others’ wish to not be referred to as cis.

It’s almost as if you want to cause as much offence as possible and still claim to be the ‘inclusive’ ones.

greengrey · 04/03/2021 18:23

I don't feel the need to use a term to say that I am not something.

Datun · 04/03/2021 18:24

I am not transgender so I can't confirm this however that isn't a compromise. That is who they are. However if they want to refer to themselves as women without having to state they are trans women, they have the same right as we do to do so.

Of course. And others have the right to say what definition are you using? What's your criteria? What do you mean??

NigellaSeed · 04/03/2021 18:24

Transgender people have the highest rate of being murdered. Being transgender is still not accepted in all corners of society - not even in Britain, being homosexual was illegal 50 years ago and still is in many parts of the world

I could go on

Yes white men have the most privalege. Yes FGM is an abomination. That doesn't mean that ciswomen don't have more privalege than others.

I think this thread is so toxic.

GertiMJN · 04/03/2021 18:25

However if they want to refer to themselves as women without having to state they are trans women, they have the same right as we do to do so.
The right to self reference is not the end point though is it? Because it leads to the loss of protection on the basis of sex.