What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

@averylongtimeago

I am a woman, an adult human female. I need no other descriptor and find the term "cis" deeply offensive.

First response has it in a nutshell. As you were told on your other thread, OP.

If they want to think of themselves as a woman, of course I can't stop them, but I'm allowed to think they are wrong. Just like if they defined themselves as a tea cosy or a green sea turtle. That's fine, but if they say that to me, I'm liable to disagree, and I certainly don't think any laws should be based on their beliefs.

Yes, this is my position. Live and let live. But when it matters, we need safeguards, checks and balances. Women and girls deserve the privacy and dignity of single sex spaces and as the disadvantaged sex class sometimes we need services to centre our needs. Gender identity is irrelevant to this. I believe this view is shared by most people in the U.K. and it's borne out in polling on the subject.

So it is a privilege to be cis gender?

I’ve heard it all now.

But for the record, I find it offensive that I be labelled cis when there is nothing wrong with being a plain old female/woman.

It is others - not women - who are insisting on the cis so they can claim ‘my’ description of woman or female - how is that fair?

From my viewpoint the privilege certainly does not belong to women. Far from it.

Our rights as women are being eroded in order to be inclusive to others. Not very inclusive to us is it?

Stop it with the goady posts @ASugar. You know very well (if you are a woman) why women object to being called cis. You really don't need male privilege explaining to you.

@PheasantPlucker1

Asugar youre analogy is wrong.

Calling somone cis when they dont have a gender is misgendering them.

It wouldnt be the same as calling a transwoman a transwoman, it would be the same as calling them a man, which we dont generally do here, and is deleted when it happens.

I saw it at least a dozen times in a single thread yesterday. And again today on the Boots thread.

If a transgender woman said the term woman is all they used to define themselves, that would also be within their right. Agree or disagree?

So, what commonality does a transwoman have with a woman?

It like any noun, if it loses its integral meaning, what does it end up meaning? Why are women being told that a male can also be a woman when woman has an already well established meaning?

Who benefits from destabilising the language we use to describe ourselves? Look at EVERYONE who benefits, not just the obvious.

I don't believe in innate gender identity. It collides with my spiritual belief in sexless souls who are all equal in the sight of God.
Since I have no gender identity, due to my long-held (40+ years and counting) belief, I am a Woman, because that is the word most often used to describe the adult female form of human beings, much as sow, cow and bitch are used of other mammals that have clear and distinct male and female versions.
I dislike gender stereotypes, seeing them as authoritarian and dictatorial, so I don't actually care how a man or woman presents. I do think biology matters. Cis paired with trans is a torturous adoption from Chemistry, which doesn't actually work.
You want to be called cis? That's fine. Perhaps you do have an innate gender identity. Perhaps your belief is correct, or perhaps my belief is correct.

When the Endtimes come, only one of us will be happy. And the other one won't care.

“Woman” does not relate to gender. It relates to biological sex. It describes an adult female human. It is the equivalent of, say, “mare” describing an adult female horse.

The words you’re looking for that relate to gender are “feminine” and “masculine”.

But they also need medical services based on their biology, and their biology is male, so it wouldn’t really be true that ‘woman’ is enough to define them in certain circumstances.

So whilst it is their ‘right’ to define themselves however they like on an individual level, in terms of identity, on a wider level it cannot be their ‘right’ to change language to reinforce an identity belief not a scientific fact.

Because then how will anyone organise anything?

Trans woman or men present as, they are not originally of.
Mother Nature isn't fooled by the wrappings added to her original blueprint which remains the same no matter how much the outside is altered.
I am a Woman, even at my worse moments, dressed in baggy leggins and a t shirt, I still present as a woman.
The is no CIS in it, it's a new word used by those who wish to subvert the truth.

Knock it off with the goady posts OP. You've been told why, so stop it.

@OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg

“Woman” does not relate to gender. It relates to biological sex. It describes an adult female human. It is the equivalent of, say, “mare” describing an adult female horse.

The words you’re looking for that relate to gender are “feminine” and “masculine”.

Did you know that the word Silly used to mean 'blessed with worthiness'?

Language evolves.

OP - do you put as much effort into arguing this point with men?

I have no desire to silence anyone.

But the words man and woman are sex related, so whilst I support everyone's right to freedom of expression, I would respectfully disagree with that assertion.

YeahButNaw The Boots thread,was deleted, I presume the other posts have been?
But it does show the contrast.

If feminists misgender people, its deleted immediatly.
When we are misgendered the thread runs to hundreds of posts while people repeatedly insist its ok to misgender us by calling us cis.

Why is that?

@PheasantPlucker1

YeahButNaw The Boots thread,was deleted, I presume the other posts have been? But it does show the contrast.

If feminists misgender people, its deleted immediatly.
When we are misgendered the thread runs to hundreds of posts while people repeatedly insist its ok to misgender us by calling us cis.

Why is that?

I haven't seen anyone calling you cis? Or anyone else in this thread, for that matter.

People have just said that cisgender people exist. In the same way that straight people exist.

And you're rejecting the label. In the same way that (some) straight people used to.

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health

I suggest that you’re confused at a far more basic level than you think you are.

The thing is, this is the eleventy billionth thread we've had about the word cis.

But, there are new people coming onto this board, thick and fast.

So although this is the eleventy billionth time I've expressed myself over this issue, new people are hearing it for the first time.

And it's always good to air and explore the reasons why women are oppressed, how it's done, and how certain ideologies perpetuate it.

1. It's offensive to misgender a woman as cisgender.
2. it's disrespectful to not take 'No' as an answer for 'cisgender'.

Language evolves.

Sometimes it degenerates, as in one of the definitions of literally now being 'not literally'. This is unhelpful to accurate communication, and completely unacceptable for a word such as woman which is important for the expression of our sex-based rights.

@bellagogosdead

Can I ask a pedantic question? What does the word 'check' mean in the oft used 'check your privilege'? Does it mean to examine? Or some sort of Americanism like a 'coat check or 'hat check so sort of leave it at the door? (Yeah and don't call me cis, I do not subscribe to gender.)

I think it’s ‘examine’. As in ‘Look at and remember you have privilege that you’re not aware of.’

The other coat check idea is good too, though.

Who benefits from destabilising the language we use to describe ourselves? Look at EVERYONE who benefits, not just the obvious

This is a point worth repeating. Despotic regimes put a lot of effort into controlling and suppressing language for a reason. If people lose their language they lose their power.

The big question is, if woman can mean female or male, then what exactly is a woman? How does someone know they are one?

At what point though does a person who identifies as the opposite sex get access to the rights set aside for those who need protection from oppression due to that sex?

And ... if they have transitioned and then take a role that is for meant for females to ensure that policies set are workable and have no negative affect on females, is this ok in your view?