What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

If a transgender woman said the term woman is all they used to define themselves, that would also be within their right. Agree or disagree?

Yes. But they can’t expect everyone else to use the term woman for them. They are a transwoman. There’s a difference even if they don’t feel there is. That difference is sex.

@IFoundMyselfInThisBar

Female is the observed sex of your new born baby, gender will be the pink blanket she's wrapped in.

Excellent!

The use of ‘observed sex’ is so often swapped out for some shit about being ‘assigned at birth’, as if there was some decision to be made.

Well you observe external genitalia. Not sex.

@IFoundMyselfInThisBar

If a transgender woman said the term woman is all they used to define themselves, that would also be within their right. Agree or disagree?

Yes. But they can’t expect everyone else to use the term woman for them. They are a transwoman. There’s a difference even if they don’t feel there is. That difference is sex.

Yes, they are a woman who happens to be trans.

Like a middle-aged woman. They're still a woman.

Asugar

Why do we need to know our children’s gender? We don’t. We observe their sex and teach them about their bodies appropriately.

Many of the woman here actively fight against gendered clothing and toys for young children. We dress our children in a variety of colors with a focus on comfort. We buy dolls and cars and blocks and pretend play toys without regard to our child’s sex. As they get older we let them make their own choices and don’t keep them constrained by gender roles.

@Mockolate

When I first started following these threads on here, I first heard that term and was I'm not cis, I'm just a woman. Took offence to it as it felt like I was being told I was a subset of woman or something when I'm not, I'm just a woman! (Hard to describe but you get my gist lol) I've read more on the issues now though, and and it doesn't offende me anymore as I see it as just a descriptor - ie I'm cis, not trans. Kind of like how I'm straight, not gay.

So I assume my initial reaction is the same for those on here who still don't like it.

But woman is a word enough. It doesnt need a descriptor to decide what kind of woman you are. And, until TRAs started using it, we didnt need an all encompassing word - one for which there is no alternative - that references and describes women in relation to transwomen. trans IS the descriptor. You dont NEED another word, because you are trans, or you are not (no descriptor needed)

I chose not to find out the sex of my daughter until birth, but it was determined at conception. I am totally against the gendering of clothes, toys etc. Do you know the campaign 'Let Toys Be Toys' OP? That was started on this board. My dd plays with what she wants and dresses how she wants. She is probably what would be termed a 'tomboy' although I hate that term. She knows she's a girl because she has egss in her tummy (she's 6), she also knows girls can behave and dress however they like. Woe betide anyone who tells her otherwise....

I'm a person in my own right, funnily enough. A sex in my own right. I am not about to be classified as 'not a male who does something.'

It's a negative use of language.

Exactly, that's another major issue I have with it. I don't define myself as a woman in relation to a group of males who have a belief I don't share.

@IFoundMyselfInThisBar

If a transgender woman said the term woman is all they used to define themselves, that would also be within their right. Agree or disagree?

Yes. But they can’t expect everyone else to use the term woman for them. They are a transwoman. There’s a difference even if they don’t feel there is. That difference is sex.

If that is the case then why should I or anyone else accept men and women who don't wish to get called cis?

As in, if we can say it "that's all there is" then trans people can too.
For a lot of people no, that's not all there is, there is a sense of being female.
Whilst people are getting offended over the "c word", and "don't call me that" by that reckoning saying to other people you're nothing else apart from your body is offensive in itself.
Yes, it's obviously a huge part, but it's not all there is.
For me, anyway, and for a lot of other people it seems.

@ASugar

Thank you for all your contributions so far.

Additional question, many of you have said that the term woman defines you enough and you don't feel you need to identify any further, which I can completely understand.

If a transgender woman said the term woman is all they used to define themselves, that would also be within their right. Agree or disagree?

Its absolutely their right. It isnt hate speech, so not a crime.

But I also have the right not to believe them, and know that they are wrong because Im aware what the definition of what that word is.

The definition of woman is adult human female. Which they are not.

Well you observe external genitalia. Not sex.

Funny how the criteria for determining sex is so often up for grabs.

But the pink blanket? Nah! That's great!

If they want to think of themselves as a woman, of course I can't stop them, but I'm allowed to think they are wrong. Just like if they defined themselves as a tea cosy or a green sea turtle. That's fine, but if they say that to me, I'm liable to disagree, and I certainly don't think any laws should be based on their beliefs.

Thanks for that @applestrudels - very well put.

I think the OP has simply made it easier for me to say why I reject being referred to as "cis-": because it buys in to a rewriting of language. Words such as "woman" (and their equivalents in other languages) have always captured the physical reality of sex (both the two sexes and sexual reproduction) which is an established concept across the entire human race and through its entire history. (A concept that can never be erased as long as the human species hopes to reproduce - men and women need to be able to tell each other apart!).

No-one has the authority to suddenly recast these words as gender-based and detach them from sex, and many of us want to hang on to their common longstanding meaning. If you want to introduce a new concept, introduce a new word!

Well you observe external genitalia. Not sex.

They are sex organs. Therefore sex.

Missed out my key point in response to your question OP. Dd has a sex and a personality. As far as I am concerned she doesn't have a gender. Gender is stereotypes.

Yes, they are a woman who happens to be trans.

They are an MTF trans person. Women are female.

I haven't RTFT because......

Have you lost interest in your other thread OP?

Genders are sex stereotypes - it’s very illiberal to require any person to identify with any one of them. As I don’t identify with any sex stereotype I can’t possibly be cis. I’m a woman, plain and simple.

@Datun

Well you observe external genitalia. Not sex.

Funny how the criteria for determining sex is so often up for grabs.

But the pink blanket? Nah! That's great!

That's the privilege right there.

When you're oppressed by your sex, people have no fucking problem identifying it.

Neither do they have the smallest problem ignoring the fact that gender is the means by which it's done. The pink blanket doesn't get a look in, does it?!

So the word woman has now been given to transwomen and women have been renamed cis-women because transwomen don't like to put trans in front of their name?

This is really getting out of hand!

@ASugar

Thank you for all your contributions so far.

Additional question, many of you have said that the term woman defines you enough and you don't feel you need to identify any further, which I can completely understand.

If a transgender woman said the term woman is all they used to define themselves, that would also be within their right. Agree or disagree?

They’d be quite within their rights to say the term ‘woman’ is enough to define them - but what does that really mean in practice?

I don’t mind if the trans woman next door calls themselves a woman, uses she/her etc.

But they also need medical services based on their biology, and their biology is make, so it wouldn’t really be true that ‘woman’ is enough to define them in certain circumstances.

If that is the case then why should I or anyone else accept men and women who don't wish to get called cis?

Well, it’s completely unnecessary for a start by definition. A woman is an adult human female. No extra info required. But you can do what you like. And so can I, which is why my choice is to find cis offensive.

I believe that "woman" describes my biological sex, not my gender. Gender is a word which describes the societal stereotypes associated with my biological sex. I do not believe that gender exists objectively outside of those stereotypes. If we didn't have gender we would still have sex.

Asugar youre analogy is wrong.

Calling somone cis when they dont have a gender is misgendering them.

It wouldnt be the same as calling a transwoman a transwoman, it would be the same as calling them a man, which we dont generally do here, and is deleted when it happens.

Can I ask a pedantic question?
What does the word 'check' mean in the oft used 'check your privilege'?
Does it mean to examine?
Or some sort of Americanism like a 'coat check or 'hat check so sort of leave it at the door?
(Yeah and don't call me cis, I do not subscribe to gender.)