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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans rights are a part of women's rights

999 replies

ASugar · 04/03/2021 09:16

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

OP posts:
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PheasantPlucker1 · 04/03/2021 10:11

OP youre not going to convince anyone just by repeating a mantra.

You say women and transwomen the same as were both women... but then you cant say what that word means, so thats meaningless.

What do transwomen and women have in common?
How are we in any way the same?

Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 10:11

@minchinfin I'd like to add I care deeply about the rights of trans men equally as trans women.

OP posts:
minchinfin · 04/03/2021 10:11

Good point about the anglocentrucism. By ASugar definition (which, in itself, is transphobic - we can't assume people's gender/transgender) is an African transwoman that can't show they are a transwoman/woman for fear of abuse/death and has to leave pronouns as he/him a woman?

poshme · 04/03/2021 10:11

@PheasantPlucker1

OP youre not going to convince anyone just by repeating a mantra.

You say women and transwomen the same as were both women... but then you cant say what that word means, so thats meaningless.

What do transwomen and women have in common?
How are we in any way the same?

I suppose we usually have 2 arms 2 legs and a head?
allmywhat · 04/03/2021 10:13

I don’t know what is happening here but I’m enjoying it! The MOJ thread made me too angry to speak although I’m glad of the sunlight. This thread is a nice palate cleanser, thank you all. 💐

Winesalot · 04/03/2021 10:13

And since you work with young people and it seems quite vulnerable women, have you ever thought about their right to be able to request a same sex health care professional, particularly for intimate procedures?

What do you think about the NHS trust that used a rape victims letter requesting a same sex health care profession for an intimate examination as an example of transphobia? Still no impact on women's rights? All ok?

poshme · 04/03/2021 10:13

@ASugar what about the rights of women like those who were in prison with Karen white?

minchinfin · 04/03/2021 10:13

@ASugar fair enough, I'll take your word for it that you care about transmen (trans men, which on is banned this week?), but they really come across as an after thought in your posting style. You might want to ponder on why that is.

mycatisgivingyouthefinger · 04/03/2021 10:13

So down thread Mumsnet have deleted my post saying that men can never be women and women can never be men and that I will never lie and say otherwise...

What is wrong with saying this?

Men are men
Women are women
Men are not women
Women are not men

Gerla · 04/03/2021 10:14

What do transwomen and women have in common?
How are we in any way the same?

I would like to know this too. I have nothing in common with a TW. That doesn't mean that I am taking away anyone's rights, it's just a statement of fact. I do have a lot in common with other women - our biology. Do we not deserve a word to describe ourselves?

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 04/03/2021 10:15

Male / female and men / women are words that describe biological sex. They have nothing to do with gender, how you choose to present, self expression except in a stereotypically regressive way where certain attributes were once attributed to sex. Women have been fighting sexist stereotypes for generations, men need to catch up with throwing off stereotypes and live their lives how they see fit, despite their sex. Nothing will change the fact that every human has a sex and it is immutable. Trans rights are a part of women's rights in that trans men are women. Women's rights should never centre men, any rights that benefit men at the expense of women are not good for women.

SorryAuntLydia · 04/03/2021 10:16

[quote ASugar]@FlibbertyGiblets Incorrect. Trans men are born female which is why some women's rights concerns affect them. However trans women are mental and some affect them as well.[/quote]
Wait... what? ’trans women are mental’ why would you say that?@ASugar

@ASugar is this some kind of... confession??? Or are you just looking for scre3nshots for Twatter? Take your dead cats and throw them elsewhere, thanks.

Cailleach1 · 04/03/2021 10:16

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allmywhat · 04/03/2021 10:17

I suppose we usually have 2 arms 2 legs and a head

Uhhhh exCUSE me you are being deeply exclusionary of people with one, three, several dozen or no arms and you can’t reduce people to body parts like that. Being a womanortranswoman is about more than just possessing a head.

poshme · 04/03/2021 10:18

@allmywhat

I suppose we usually have 2 arms 2 legs and a head

Uhhhh exCUSE me you are being deeply exclusionary of people with one, three, several dozen or no arms and you can’t reduce people to body parts like that. Being a womanortranswoman is about more than just possessing a head.

Careful use of usually. Smile
SunsetBeetch · 04/03/2021 10:19

[quote ASugar]@risefromyourgrave because they deal with biological female issue such as being victims of FGM, sexual assault and more.[/quote]
So you agree that at least some of the rights women have to fight for are because of our biology?

Unfortunately, OP, that makes you a bit terfy.

allmywhat · 04/03/2021 10:20

In fact many species of fungi don’t even have heads! Therefore,er, um, triumphant link to that Nature editorial. SO THERE

acatcalledjohn · 04/03/2021 10:21

If trans men are affected by female sex-based oppression, then trans women have enjoyed male privilege prior to transition.

Fair's fair.

BlackWaveComing · 04/03/2021 10:22

@allmywhat

In fact many species of fungi don’t even have heads! Therefore,er, um, triumphant link to that Nature editorial. SO THERE
Heads are a spectrum.
Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 10:22

@cailleach1 As long as you respect mine as She/Her then I have no issue with that

OP posts:
BlackWaveComing · 04/03/2021 10:22

@acatcalledjohn

If trans men are affected by female sex-based oppression, then trans women have enjoyed male privilege prior to transition.

Fair's fair.

Prior, during, after....
Winesalot · 04/03/2021 10:23

And ASugar, could you please let us know if you think it is progressive that women's roles which are there to support, progress and influence policy for women are taken by males.

If you want a specific example, you say you work with females who are victims of FGM, in your mind, are they receiving the very best representation of someone with an agenda that is determined to take away the language they use to describe themselves?

What about the women being incarcerated with people with penises? Are you advocating that the inclusion of males with a history of violence in the female prison estates is ok if they are transwomen?

andyoldlabour · 04/03/2021 10:23

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mycatisgivingyouthefinger · 04/03/2021 10:24

[quote ASugar]@cailleach1 As long as you respect mine as She/Her then I have no issue with that[/quote]

You would call someone "your majesty" at their insistence?

Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 10:24

@Sunsetbeetch I agree some are biological but not all.

OP posts: