Trans rights are a part of women's rights

[ASugar]

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

teawamutu I think in my ancient BeRo recipe book it was just a sponge cake topping, but I've certainly done a pineapple crumble in my time.

However the way I see it is someone living in country can't claim it is their ethnicity, however they can become residents of that country and be recognized as a citizen. That's the way I see it.

That's a reasonable analogy. However, you've missed out a crucial stage of the process. It's up to the residents of that country to decide who is, or isn't, allowed to enter and what citizenship rights they may or mean not acquire. I can't just rock up in the US and demand the right to work there.
Women haven't been given jurisdiction on their own domain. We've never even been adequately consulted.

What's happened has been much more analogous to colonisation. Members of a stronger nation imposing themselves on one they've historically oppressed.

What’s really insightful is that what the OP is calling “transphobia” is actually basic safeguarding, and when this is pointed out the OP makes no attempt to discuss safeguarding just deflect the conversation away from it, which of course in itself is a massive red flag.

Safeguarding above ALL. There is no group in society who can ever be allowed to opt out of basic safeguarding rules, and if they want to then we need to be questioning why!

@blackwavecoming who says I don't? I've not silenced anyone here.

OP, you sound a bit transphobic to me, insisting that transmen are women.

Maybe you should throw your discussion out there on Twitter and see how long it takes for you to fall foul of your own purity spiral? I'd say by about the third reply you'd have people trying to find out where you work in order to get you sacked. Or in your case, contacting your school to ask for them to give you lunchtime detention for thought crimes.

testingmitb, there’s a statue of Freud outside the Tavistock.

However trans women are mental and some affect them as well.

Oh dear.

Male / female and men / women are words that describe biological sex. They have nothing to do with gender, how you choose to present, self expression except in a stereotypically regressive way where certain attributes were once attributed to sex. Women have been fighting sexist stereotypes for generations, men need to catch up with throwing off stereotypes and live their lives how they see fit, despite their sex. Nothing will change the fact that every human has a sex and it is immutable. Trans rights are a part of women's rights in that trans men are women. Women's rights should never centre men, any rights that benefit men at the expense of women are not good for women.

@ErrolTheDragon I understand that idea. From what studies have shown especially by scientists and medical professionals, most women do accept this.

[quote ASugar]@blackwavecoming who says I don't? I've not silenced anyone here.[/quote]
Madly hammering the report button and turning the thread into Swiss cheese says otherwise.

However trans women are mental

So according to the OP a woman is someone who identifies with the female sex but you don't have to be biologically tamale to be a woman, and to top it off they claim that trans women are mental.

You can't make this up.

[quote ASugar]@ErrolTheDragon I understand that idea. From what studies have shown especially by scientists and medical professionals, most women do accept this.[/quote]
I've lost track... which idea?

@Wellthatsunusual Never said trans men are women. They are men of the trans experience.

@ScoobyCat

What’s really insightful is that what the OP is calling “transphobia” is actually basic safeguarding, and when this is pointed out the OP makes no attempt to discuss safeguarding just deflect the conversation away from it, which of course in itself is a massive red flag.

Safeguarding above ALL. There is no group in society who can ever be allowed to opt out of basic safeguarding rules, and if they want to then we need to be questioning why!

👏🏼

Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman

If a trans woman is a woman by definition a trans man must be a man. Men can’t experience oppression based on being a woman.

If you are arguing that trans men suffer oppression because of their sex not their gender then surely the sex of trans women is also relevant?

The OP can state falsehoods til they're blue in the face and identify as a smurf. It doesn't matter. What you say OP, will never be true. Truth will win out in the end.

[quote ASugar]@ErrolTheDragon I understand that idea. From what studies have shown especially by scientists and medical professionals, most women do accept this.[/quote]
Most women accept that people born male are women too?

Do you have sources for that? And Pink News doesn't count as a reputable scientific source...

Trans women are trans women, not women. The oppression of women and girls is based in their biology, not their pronouns or clothes.
When trans women co-op into spaces (both physical and metaphorical) that natal women have fought for because of biological sex based needs that does affect women’s rights, those that sex based and enshrined in law.

Yes that is really trasnphobic ASugar. Twitter won't be impressed at you assuming trans men's gender identity (though it's really sex, so in that sense you're right of course, glad to see you agree with us GC folx)

Most women accept that people born male are women too?

That's not an idea from any of my posts.

A woman is someone with she/her pronouns and who identifies themself with the female sex.

OP, about these pronouns, please.

If we take you literally, women are something that only exist in the anglosphere.

If we don't, and assume that you also mean sie/ihr (German) and so on, that still brings up problems regarding languages where they do not have the same structure. I brought up Finland. My fellow MNer has brought up Japan.

It's all very Anglocentric, isn't it? If your definition of woman only works by imposing your own language onto 7 billion people, the definition is mebbe flawed, isn't it.

@ErrolTheDragon

However the way I see it is someone living in country can't claim it is their ethnicity, however they can become residents of that country and be recognized as a citizen. That's the way I see it.

That's a reasonable analogy. However, you've missed out a crucial stage of the process. It's up to the residents of that country to decide who is, or isn't, allowed to enter and what citizenship rights they may or mean not acquire. I can't just rock up in the US and demand the right to work there.
Women haven't been given jurisdiction on their own domain. We've never even been adequately consulted.

What's happened has been much more analogous to colonisation. Members of a stronger nation imposing themselves on one they've historically oppressed.

Agree totally.

They are men of the trans experience
So trans men not men?

Therefore women of the trans experience are surely trans women not women?

OP, has it ever occurred to you that you wouldn't be able to badly argue any of this if biology wasn't real? Because biology is the very reason all of us exist. Not gender identity.

" men of the trans experience"

Love it! I'll be using that one