Trans rights are a part of women's rights

[ASugar]

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

'One of the primary reasons for the tiny handful of destransitioners is they can't take the abuse for being transgender.'

Sounds like bullshit tbh, I imagine the abuse people get for detransitioning must be extremely difficult to cope with. Imagine getting your entire family to acknowledge your new identity, making a new group of trans friends, getting support from trans charities etc then realising it was a mistake. How could you ever go back and say hey everyone I was wrong? I understand why a quick and easy transition is preferred but surely it puts the people transitioning at a very high risk for mental health problems and suicide in a situation where they want to de transition.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

By whom? If you mean that medical bodies will consider you to be a cisgender woman

"Cisgender" won't even enter the heads of 99% of medics. They'll think of you as your sex, and possibly consider if you are likely to identify as transgender. Which of these things matters most in medicine, do you think?

It does occur to me that although we don't have any actual data on the number of people who have a gender identity that is different to their birth sex, we do know that it is a relatively small proportion of the population.

I have heard various figures but the NHS gave an estimate of approx. 2 million which is approx 3% percentage of the overall population.

That does mean that people with no gender identity make up 97% which means in the way we normally work that 'no gender identity' will be viewed as the default so there doesn't need to be a change to our existing terminology, especially in a high pressure situations where medics have huge stress and need to make instantaneous decisions that sometimes make the difference between life and death - they need to be able to focus on the sex of the patients and their immediate medical needs resulting from that.

Obviously education is important so that people that do feel their gender identity are understood by the general population and treated with normal respect in the same way as anyone else should be treated.

My grandma used to say 'do as you would be done by'. I try and treat everyone with kindness and consideration and would like it if the same was done for me.

@Winesalot

One of the primary reasons for the tiny handful of destransitioners is they can't take the abuse for being transgender.

Are you a detransitioner or do you have some evidence for this statement?

This paper has evidence, but because there are very few destransioners, there aren’t many studies.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9570489/

because there are very few destransioners, there aren’t many studies.

Such a shame then that so many TRAs try to shut down any further studies.

By the way, this is a study from over twenty years ago and so is not in any relevant to the huge increase in females transitioning (and detransitioning) that we have seen in the past few years. It's almost as if you googled without any idea of what you were actually looking for.

Many detransitioners can't really fully detransition though. Females who have taken testosterone won't ever sound like women again, so it's hardly taking the easy way out is it? They will always be othered. TM often pass more easily than TW because of the vocal and facial hair changes caused by testosterone. They will struggle ever to be perceived as 'cis' as detransitioners.

There arent many studies because the studies are banned.

www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-41384473

[quote PheasantPlucker1]There arent many studies because the studies are banned.

www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-41384473[/quote]
This.

Guess who tries to ban them?

This paper has evidence, but because there are very few destransioners, there aren’t many studies

The numbers of detransiotiners are increasing, and so are the studies. In Britain, there has ben a 4000% explosion in the rates of young women seeking to transition; most often with no history of dysphoria at all. This often happens in friendship groups, and is nurtured by on-line communities.

detransitioners and desistors

There are now studies coming out of countries such as Denmark and Sweden too.

Now the OP has 3 threads, all posted recently all in the similar vein:"Trans rights don't effect women's rights", what's wrong with 'cisgender' ?" and this one. Hmmmm....

I used to think I was more male. That was stupid though, it just meant I didn't fit into stereotypes well. I have no feelings of being female, I simply know I am because of biology

I used to imagine that if I was male I'd be gay. I used to imagine myself as a gay man. As human beings we contain all shades and qualities, but it does not change our sex.

OP. And others. I definitely agree with everything you’ve said.

As a long-standing member of this board, I totally agree with all your points. Thank you for educating us.

**please understand that not all words I use might make sense to you. They may or may not mean the things you think they mean. However, I 100% know what I mean, and that is all that matters. Again, thank you.

@Godxilla

Now the OP has 3 threads, all posted recently all in the similar vein:"Trans rights don't effect women's rights", what's wrong with 'cisgender' ?" and this one. Hmmmm....

And has gone back to Twitter with the report and screenshots. Exactly as would said would do all along. All the probably hundreds of deletions this OP has caused are now strikes and some are banned or risk being banned. You've been played MN. Don't delete this for troll hunting, I'm not hunting the OP admitted it.

I feel that I am a woman have the lived experiences of a woman so I advocate for women's rights. I have no idea what it is like to be a Trans woman and have the lived experiences of a Trans woman so I do no advocate for Trans women's rights. IMO the lived experiences of both are very different and therefore the rights of each are different. We are all human so have human rights.

Wrong side of history, my arse.

Last time they threatened me with a ban I left of my own accord for about six months.

I spent the time talking, in person, with other women. Those women talked with other women. Who also talked with other women.

They won’t silence us. So we won’t be able to post on MN for a while. So what.

@MNHQ do you feel a bit silly about your good faith position now that @ASugar / @AnxietySugar has reported back on twitter, complete with screenshots, gloating, half truths and lies - just like she and all of us said she would?

[quote minchinfin]@MNHQ do you feel a bit silly about your good faith position now that @ASugar / @AnxietySugar has reported back on twitter, complete with screenshots, gloating, half truths and lies - just like she and all of us said she would?[/quote]
I wouldn't ever want @MNHQ not to act on good faith - what they go through to preserve this space for us wins my respect and massive gratitude.

Admittedly, the effects of this particular action have been seriously fucking tedious.

anyway

Personally I have lurked on this board long enough that even I could see from the OP that there was an angle on this post and the others by the OP. Sometimes gut feeling and experience of those on this board can be right huh

@Godxilla

Now the OP has 3 threads, all posted recently all in the similar vein:"Trans rights don't effect women's rights", what's wrong with 'cisgender' ?" and this one. Hmmmm....

Yep. And FWIW I genuinely was interested in their perspective since normally it’s so frightening to ask these questions but alas the conversation was ended when Rachel Dolezal came up.

I don’t think MNHQ will respond on that, minchinfin, I’ve seen them comment recently that they’re aware that people screenshot and run off to Twitter to report back on how awful we all are, but they don’t see any need to intervene.

It’s a weird hobby, diving in somewhere that you think is an echo chamber in order to take evidence of your magnificent bravery and fortitude in the lions den back to...your own echo chamber so they can all agree what a splendid crusader you are 🤣 but then lockdown has driven us all to find our entertainment where we can...

My abusive ex used to (and still tries to but I'm much wiser) push and push and goad and goad and when I did react, that was obviously evidence of what an awful person I was while he could claim to be the good guy.

That's what manipulators do. It's all about distortion and misrepresentation.

No one even needs to see the screenshot 'evidence' as they've made up their minds that MN's only purpose is to hurt trans people.

But we must all remind ourselves that twitter and real life are a hell of a long way apart from each other.

But we must all remind ourselves that twitter and real life are a hell of a long way apart from each other

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