Trans rights are a part of women's rights

[ASugar]

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

If you are a woman - ie if I asked you if you were a woman and you said "yes" and you are from the sex class with large gametes, your gender identity is "woman," and you are cisgender according to the accepted theory

It is not a universally accepted theory. It is an ideological construct.

Accepted theory is something like gravitational pull, or the fact that most species are divided into two sexes

I believe you don't believe in gender identity, in the same way people don't believe masks protect you from COVID. But I don't think it's starting point for policy

Measurable and usually universally recognised reality is usually the starting point for practical policy. But of course, some policies are ideologically motivated

I’m cringing so hard at this effort to lump feminists in with racists, flat earthers, climate change deniers, homophobes, anti vaxxers, the religious right, people who don’t believe in spleens (what?) Uncle Tom Cobbley and all

Never change, dadjoke. You’re doing great. You really bring the logic to life in all its contradictory glory. Thanks!

There's something brilliantly ironic about a belief system, a modern religion, of gender identity, being forced on everyone by people who throw their hands up in horror at the idea of the religious right.

I've got news for the TRAs. You are one and the same. Believing that your personal belief system should be forced on everyone, enforced by law, and that those who dissent should be punished and/or re-educated.

@FlibbertyGiblets

Am I to understand that gender is ascribed to me without my consent?

I'm so confused by this - we keep being told that gender is a self-ascribed thing that is only truly known by the person experiencing that particular gender.

Yet, we are also being told that we all have a gender identity whether we like it or not.

I don't have a gender identity - I don't have a sense of myself as having particularly female or male traits - I can reverse a trailer with ease, I enjoy fixing things and getting messy, occasionally I paint my nails and dress up, hate high heels (haven't got the ankle strength any more), I love decorating and designing interiors, sometimes I find it easier to hang out with the guys and sometimes it is a relief to talk with women - I honestly can't ascribe any significant proportion of traits that is considered stereotypically male or female to myself.

I grew up in the 70s (which by comparison to now is looking better and better) when Lego sold Lego to children and we built stuff with it - not 'girly' pink Lego or 'boyish' fire truck Lego. Some girls at my school wore dresses because they liked them and quite a few wore trousers because it was more comfortable (we had no uniform).

Some had long hair, some had short hair - we didn't really think much about ourselves other than a fascinating incident in the Infant school playground where a boy offered to show us 'his' (I didn't have a brother) but we all looked and then moved on with our game which involved a lot of running around in the playground.

I haven't got a gender identity and I believe the concept is regressive unhelpful to equality between the sexes.

Sex is important and any attempt to blur the lines between the two sexes will undermine women's rights and protections.

This is disingenuous. You know perfectly well, and you could answer the question.

No it isn't. She's female. What is else there?

The vast majority of people know their gender, and all of them have a gender identity - even if it's non-binary

It seems that those resident in the U.S, and in certain states at that, have long been 'taught' using the Genderbread person, to the extemt that most young people now feel that they have to come out and state some kind of gender identity.

In Britain, and in most other countries, this is not the case. If you asked people in Britain "what their gender identity was" they'd look at you with a confusion. Gender identity is a mental construct, not a measurable reality. People are either male or female. How they feel about themselves, on the other hand, is a private matter.

*What else is there?

@wellthatsunusual

There's something brilliantly ironic about a belief system, a modern religion, of gender identity, being forced on everyone by people who throw their hands up in horror at the idea of the religious right.

I've got news for the TRAs. You are one and the same. Believing that your personal belief system should be forced on everyone, enforced by law, and that those who dissent should be punished and/or re-educated.

Absolutely.

Eppur si muove

I’m cringing so hard at this effort to lump feminists in with racists, flat earthers, climate change deniers, homophobes, anti vaxxers, the religious right, people who don’t believe in spleens (what?) Uncle Tom Cobbley and all

Never change, dadjoke. You’re doing great. You really bring the logic to life in all its contradictory glory. Thanks!

it's quite something to behold.

So anybody can just say anything and it becomes reality?

It would appear so. All aboard the pomo "nothing means anything unless I say so" train!

I'm so confused by this - we keep being told that gender is a self-ascribed thing that is only truly known by the person experiencing that particular gender.

Yet, we are also being told that we all have a gender identity whether we like it or not.

Oh oh! I think I know the answer to this one. Is it that male bodied people get to decide the male bodied people's gender identity. And, wait for it, male bodied people get to decide on the female bodied people's gender identity too. That must be it. Because nothing else makes sense...

I can't bear the attempt to compare with racists, it's a TRA tactic totally scraping the bottom of the barrel. It sickens me.

By whom? If you mean that medical bodies will consider you to be a cisgender woman

"Cisgender" won't even enter the heads of 99% of medics. They'll think of you as your sex, and possibly consider if you are likely to identify as transgender. Which of these things matters most in medicine, do you think?

I can't bear the attempt to compare with racists, it's a TRA tactic totally scraping the bottom of the barrel. It sickens me.

It is. I agree it's out of order. I don't generally report posts but anyone else is free to, the facility isn't only there for people who don't like women speaking.

Have we been given an answer to the question of how we find out what our gender identity is, and how we know whether to answer 'yes' to the question 'are you a woman?" Why do the gender supporters never answer basic questions?

One of the primary reasons for the tiny handful of destransitioners is they can't take the abuse for being transgender.

Are you a detransitioner or do you have some evidence for this statement?

I don't know what it's like to be be female, because my gender identity is male. I never suggested I did.

What do you mean? Do you mean you weren't born female so you don't know what it's like, or you were born female but always felt like a male?
This is why 'gender identity' doesn't make any sense as a descriptor.

I don't know what it's like to be be female, because my gender identity is male. I never suggested I did.

I used to think I was more male. That was stupid though, it just meant I didn't fit into stereotypes well. I have no feelings of being female, I simply know I am because of biology.

I notice in all his pomo excitement DadJoke must have missed my post to him:

If you accept that gender identity is real, it leads to acknowledgement that transgender peoples' identity is as valid as cisgender peoples'.

But I don't accept that gender identity is real in the way you think it is, I don't have any problem with what other people think about their personal "identity", but it doesn't have any bearing on what sex they are. Which also doesn't matter most of the time. But sometimes it does, and none of this endless posturing, asserting and navel gazing means anything on these occasions. The fact is that most women in the U.K., as per various polls, are happy to live and let live, but don't want male bodies in their single sex spaces. Because it violates their privacy and dignity. Don't pretend it's not sexist to handwave that away because it's inconvenient for you.

I reported @Ereshkigalangcleg but it's so sly it probably won't get deleted. I really despise it as a tactic though, it's so prevalent on twitter and one of the (many) things that make the site unbearable.

I really hope MN won't let it take hold here.

@WeeBisom

Have we been given an answer to the question of how we find out what our gender identity is, and how we know whether to answer 'yes' to the question 'are you a woman?" Why do the gender supporters never answer basic questions?

No

Transwomen experience oppression from being transwomen not from being women. We are bist oppressed but not for the same reasons

If knowing one’s sex is a gender identity, then equally, knowing one’s race, age and species are also identities which can be opted in/out of. So, Rachel Dolezal must be a black woman, and 52 year old father-of-seven Stefoknee Wolscht must be a 6 year old girl.