Trans rights are a part of women's rights

[ASugar]

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

@DadJoke yes I genuinely do have a problem answering the question if the definition isn’t what I thought it was.

Homosexuality is being attracted to the same sex - you know because you’re attracted to the opposite sex.

Feeling happy is a feeling yes which as a descriptor I guess attached to endorphins firing in the brain, and probably most people can describe a common way of feeling that relates to being joyful, smiling, laughing etc. being conscious I suppose would be having thoughts.

Feeling ‘a woman’ is an alien concept to me as it says to me that you have to feel a certain way..and I have no idea what that is.

Can you explain your proprioception? Your sexuality? Are they made up concepts? People know their gender identity - it's literally a descriptor of how you answer a question based on your own perception.

It clearly 'literally' isn't a descriptor because if it was then no one here would have any problem answering what 'gender' they are. If I go and ask my mother what her sexuality is she'll be able to tell me, if I ask her 'gender' she's not going to know what I mean.

You keep talking as if your ideology is accepted fact - it isn't.

She was talking directly about me, not people in general. She didn't say "women are punished" she said "you" If I am going to be accused of "punishing" people, then I will deny it, because I am entirely opposed to it.

Are you entirely opposed to the treatment handed out to JK Rowling by trans activists?

@Dadjoke - You state that "people know their gender identity - it's literally a descriptor of how you answer a question based on your own perception." But my own perception of what? What do I need to introspect or perceive in order to answer the question what my gender identity is? What is the difference between a 'woman' perception, and a 'man' perception?

It's not 'trivial' or 'easy' to answer the question of what my gender identity is, if I have no clue what the concept 'woman' is!

DadJoke I am female, and heterosexual.

That means I feel sexual arousal with males. That can be measured both internally (feelings of butterflies, giddiness) externally (pupil dilation) and scientifically (pulse rate, brain action). Among many others factors.

While I can appreciate womens beauty, I do not have the same biological, measurable response.

Easy.

Everything can be defined, except gender.
Although feel free to have a go?

I wont hold my breath

DadJoke transmen are excluded far more than transwomen.

Yet no one, including you, argues for them.

Why is that? Why are some transpeople more deserving to you than others?

If you answer the question "Are you a women?" yes, that's your gender identity.

Is that all there is to it?

If so, that’s a clear admission that the purpose of gender identity is to allow people to claim to be something they are not. We all have to accept that we have a gender identity solely so that a male person can say “I am a woman” too.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I guess we will have to move forward without your help, DadJoke.

Touché 😂

Not long ago, racists were saying similar things. But social norms change.

Racists were saying that some people were not really the opposite sex? I don't think these constant race comparisons quite work.

@PheasantPlucker1

DadJoke transmen are excluded far more than transwomen.

Yet no one, including you, argues for them.

Why is that? Why are some transpeople more deserving to you than others?

It's a mystery, isn't it?

@Impatiens

She was talking directly about me, not people in general. She didn't say "women are punished" she said "you" If I am going to be accused of "punishing" people, then I will deny it, because I am entirely opposed to it.

Are you entirely opposed to the treatment handed out to JK Rowling by trans activists?

If by "treatment" you mean sent abuse and harassed, absolutely.

Do you actually have a problem answering the question? How do people "know" what their sexuality is? How do you know if you are conscious? If you are happy?

Almost no one has a problem answering this question. It's not a real objection.

If a person doesn't understand what gender is then how can they answer the question? If it means conforming to a regressive role forced upon human females so that human males can control reproduction what woman in their right mind would identify with this. Define gender and then people might be able to answer your question

@PheasantPlucker1

DadJoke transmen are excluded far more than transwomen.

Yet no one, including you, argues for them.

Why is that? Why are some transpeople more deserving to you than others?

I absolutely argue for the rights of trans men. But because their gender critical opponents think they are women, and condescend to them, they don't get the abuse from them that trans women do.

The vast majority of people know their gender, and all of them have a gender identity - even if it's non-binary.

The vast majority of people have never even though about gender identity. I bet you didn't even think about it five years ago.

it's literally a descriptor of how you answer a question based on your own perception.
So anybody can just say anything and it becomes reality?

But transmen dont get put in male prisons

Why not go chat to some and ask if they like you to fight for that right for them, as transwomen already have it?

[quote WeeBisom]@Dadjoke - You state that "people know their gender identity - it's literally a descriptor of how you answer a question based on your own perception." But my own perception of what? What do I need to introspect or perceive in order to answer the question what my gender identity is? What is the difference between a 'woman' perception, and a 'man' perception?

It's not 'trivial' or 'easy' to answer the question of what my gender identity is, if I have no clue what the concept 'woman' is![/quote]
This is disingenuous. You know perfectly well, and you could answer the question.

A psychologist or medical professional would describe that as your gender identity. It doesn't matter to them if you think you are a women because of your sexed attributes or not. Because there is no mismatch, that's the case for most people. You don't even need to believe in gender identity or know what it is. Answering that question gets them the answer.

You know perfectly well, and you could answer the question.

Why do you presume to know what it is like to be female? It is quite common and normal to question whether you want to be female (especially as our society treats females so appallingly - coming to terms with this can be hard). You seem to be saying that most people just "know". This is an ideological stance, not an objective truth. I can quite see that questioning can lead to dysphoria in extreme cases - but not feeling comfortable as a male does not mean you are a female and vice versa. You cannot know what it is actually like to be the other sex. Feeling gender discomfort is just that - just because you feel uncomfortable as a man, it does not follow that you a woman. That is illogical.

DadJoke woman means human adult female.

That is its meaning. Just like bitch means female dog. Sow is a female pig.

If I was asked if I was a woman by a psychologist who then did an "aha you have a gender" Id walk out and find one who had a better grasp of English.

@Gerla

You know perfectly well, and you could answer the question.

Why do you presume to know what it is like to be female? It is quite common and normal to question whether you want to be female (especially as our society treats females so appallingly - coming to terms with this can be hard). You seem to be saying that most people just "know". This is an ideological stance, not an objective truth. I can quite see that questioning can lead to dysphoria in extreme cases - but not feeling comfortable as a male does not mean you are a female and vice versa. You cannot know what it is actually like to be the other sex. Feeling gender discomfort is just that - just because you feel uncomfortable as a man, it does not follow that you a woman. That is illogical.

I don't know what it's like to be be female, because my gender identity is male. I never suggested I did.

Knowing that you are something does not, of course, imply that you are comfortable with it. In fact transgender people are often so uncomforable with their gender identity they don't ever come out. One of the primary reasons for the tiny handful of destransitioners is they can't take the abuse for being transgender.

I don't know what it's like to be be female, because my gender identity is male. I never suggested I did.

No, not because your gender identity is male, because you are male.

One of the primary reasons for the tiny handful of destransitioners is they can't take the abuse for being transgender.
Citation please. It certainly doesn't seem to be the case for most of the detransitioners I have read about.

I don't know what it's like to be be female, because my gender identity is male. I never suggested I did.

But you suggested that other people know.

One of the primary reasons for the tiny handful of destransitioners is they can't take the abuse for being transgender

That's a bit of an arrogant assumption on behalf of other people.

One of the primary reasons for the tiny handful of destransitioners is they can't take the abuse for being transgender.

Where is your evidence for this?

Because the reason I have most seen cited by detransitioners is that they were egged into transition, without adequate counselling, in a context where homophobia was rife.

DadJoke then why are you challenging us about the use of cis, when you could go on forums such as kiwi farms and challenge those who actually abuse transpeople?

[quote ASugar]@Twinkie01 Trans men do.[/quote]
I very much doubt that FGM has been performed on a transman, as it is performed purely on girls, who are children, not men - who are adults. It may be the case that a female, having been subjected to the brutality of FGM, then decides once they are adult that they wish to become a transman.