Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Trans rights are a part of women's rights

999 replies

ASugar · 04/03/2021 09:16

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
CoffeeTeaChocolate · 04/03/2021 12:40

@ThePankhurstConnection

Reddit does have some biological women only subreddits I think. I have been told that some porn subs (quite degrading porn) is biological women only.

That is actually quite transphobic, it is almost as if the men there don’t believe that trans women are women. I think people should complain about this.

ASugar · 04/03/2021 12:45

@ChancesWhatChances@Erkrie I can confirm that not just biological sex is taught in schools and colleges.

OP posts:
Gingernaut · 04/03/2021 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Cula · 04/03/2021 12:48

Women’s rights are women’s rights and don’t include people who are not female. Trans men yes, they’re female but males, no.

wellthatsunusual · 04/03/2021 12:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

ThePankhurstConnection · 04/03/2021 12:49

[quote CoffeeTeaChocolate]@ThePankhurstConnection

Reddit does have some biological women only subreddits I think. I have been told that some porn subs (quite degrading porn) is biological women only.

That is actually quite transphobic, it is almost as if the men there don’t believe that trans women are women. I think people should complain about this.[/quote]
Yes I am aware of those. Surprisingly not really the female-centric type of thing I was thinking about. Those aren't my cup of tea (coffee or chocolate) you are right though there are some including females just not what I would call female-centric in the way of discussing things affecting biological women. Wink

It's odd how those subs don't get complained about as you are quite right!

Erkrie · 04/03/2021 12:50

ChancesWhatChances@Erkrie I can confirm that not just biological sex is taught in schools and colleges.

Well we know this because of non courses such as gender studies at university which are a huge part of the problem anyway.

But let's go back to biology. Our children's schools. Biology lessons in fact. Only facts are taught in primary biology. Not gender. Biological facts. And I know this because...

CrazyNeighbour · 04/03/2021 12:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Impatiens · 04/03/2021 12:51

@ASugar

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.
Wow these threads move fast!

On the topic of the thread - OP, I totally reject your premise: the rights of transwomen aren't any more 'part' of Women's rights than the rights of disabled people and other 'protected characteristics' - i'e. not at all.

Also, trans activism has had/is having a disastrous impact on women's rights as many posters have explained. It's been basically left to (wonderful!) people, mostly Women, to challenge this activism in the courts and try to restore those rights and protections.

ASugar · 04/03/2021 12:53

@Erkrie actually I was talking about secondary schools and colleges. They have to be delivered sexual health education through the RSE programme which isn't all based on sex and biology.

OP posts:
334bu · 04/03/2021 12:55

Can you explain why transwomen share the same patterns of criminality as all other males ? If they were women there should be a dramatic difference between these two subsets of the human male sex class, so why isn't there?

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2021 12:55

They have to be delivered sexual health education through the RSE programme which isn't all based on sex and biology.

How the hell does that work?Confused

QueenCoconut · 04/03/2021 12:55

@rozettamodeau

Until today I didn't know anything about Mumsnet being monopolised by a very particular perspective on 'women's rights'. I saw something on Twitter saying 'Mumsnet is transphobic'. I thought that was sad. Mumsnet HQ says it allows 'free speech'. But tbh, coming here I observe that the Feminism chat on Mumsnet is hijacked by a particular perspective that is against trans women legally identifying as women. When someone posts the opposite view, there is no debate, rather they are jumped on by the gang in a provocative and sarcastic tone, all the while pretending that they are discussing and that the OP 'monopolises' the conversation, while it is them who have done so, effectively putting off and kicking out anyone who disagrees with them. Depressing!
Absolutely agree with you pp. in my line of work we call it ‘professional bullying’ - where you essentially tell someone to ‘f...off’ but it is yet too subtle to be recognised officially. There are people who know exactly what to say and how to navigate and manipulate conversations to avoid being called discriminatory or disrespectful. You and I and many others pick up on those signals and despite reporting it to MNHQ nothing gets done because the ‘official’ rules are not broken. How is it ever ok to repeatedly change subject and attempt to derail the discussion (‘ who wants to see my rock collection’ as an answer to someone’s genuine question and similar responses) . There are the regular people here saying the threads are repetitive, boring, have no valid arguments. Yet the same group of people repeat the SAME two arguments over and over and over on every single discussion:
  1. Woman is an adult female
  2. Women are at risk of predatory men attacking them in shared spaces like prisons etc
God forbid the definition of a woman is changed at some point, this group will have to find a new topic to obsess about. How many posts a day are about the same issue over and over again, yet no one says ‘boring!’ It’s only boring when the argument comes from the opposite side isn’t it?

Imagine if other discussion groups acted in this way , someone posting about their marriage problem and a group of people (always the same group backing each other up) challenged the poster by demanding that ‘you define marriage’ . Define friendship, define everything.

Yes, I understand (as this group always repeats) I can go away and post on other groups if I don’t like it here. The issue is what if I want to be here, say what I think but I don’t want to have to fight through this gang mentality?
Feminism is something different to everyone, you do not own the definition , you DO NOT REPRESENT all feminists, all women.
You do not represent me.
I am a woman and I am so proud of it, I see it as a compliment that other people want to define as women and have no issues with sharing a public restroom with them (as long as people don’t make too much mess;)
Please stop monopolising this place and being condescending.
Stop asking everyone to define everything , people have a right to express their opinion without having to back it up by whatever evidence you demand.
This group is the worst PR feminism can get due to a number of individuals repeatedly refusing to open their minds.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2021 12:57

There are guidelines that they can't present "born in the wrong body" gender identity ideology as an established fact without providing balance. I'm sure that some don't adhere to this, but eventually I'm also sure they will be challenged.

Women and girls have successfully legally challenged local authority trans guidelines for schools in about 10/15 counties, plus the CPS "hate crime" one, and they have been withdrawn.

Erkrie · 04/03/2021 12:57

actually I was talking about secondary schools and colleges. They have to be delivered sexual health education through the RSE programme which isn't all based on sex and biology.

The new RSE guidance 2020 states that teaching and resources have to be factually accurate. In primary and secondary. You are aware of this aren't you? Because it doesn't sound as though you are

QueenCoconut · 04/03/2021 12:58

Apologies for any potential grammar and spelling mistakes, English is not my first language.

ASugar · 04/03/2021 12:58

@Erkrie yeah I know. I teach it.

OP posts:
Kettlingur · 04/03/2021 12:59

people have a right to express their opinion without having to back it up

Yes, well, but you do realise other people will then assess your opinion accordingly? Usually adults debating any topic will at least try to have something substantial behind their opinions.

prrtnyao · 04/03/2021 13:00

@CrazyNeighbour

Excellent response

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 04/03/2021 13:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2021 13:01

The issue is what if I want to be here, say what I think

You're here, doing that. You can't make people agree with you, or stipulate how other people should discuss it.

This is the Feminism board. MN feminism is very well established, and this specific issue has been discussed for a long time. Many women have seen the issues differently due to discussions here. There are many extremely intelligent and articulate posters. It's a credit to MN, where fake news, #nodebate and violent threats are the hallmark of other discussion sites.

PheasantPlucker1 · 04/03/2021 13:01

ASugar you teach and manage to work as a sexual health nurse?
Impressive.

So if a student asks you what the word woman meant, what would you tell them?

If they asked you if it was possible to change sex, what would you tell them?

Erkrie · 04/03/2021 13:02

yeah I know. I teach it.

Judging from your posts and beliefs, it stands to reason that you are not adhering to the guidance. If I know where you worked I would be drawing careful attention to your posts which are not in line with teaching / government policy.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2021 13:04

Stop asking everyone to define everything , people have a right to express their opinion without having to back it up by whatever evidence you demand.

The definition of woman is the heart of every single one of these discussions. Damn right it's relevant.

allmywhat · 04/03/2021 13:05

Stop asking everyone to define everything , people have a right to express their opinion without having to back it up by whatever evidence you demand.

What's the point in having a discussion if you can't back up your opinions with evidence, or even define the terms you are using? What are you even asking for - are you asking to be able to post and have no one respond to you?

I think if you object to being asked for evidence and you object to being asked for definitions, it's on you to write that clearly and explicitly in all of your posts so that everyone knows it's pointless talking to you.

Swipe left for the next trending thread