Trans rights are a part of women's rights

[ASugar]

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

Here I only see ONE perspective that is based on genitals/sex.

It's based on sex. Not genitals.

Well I am baffled by the reference to Female women by the op.
I am not a cis woman, I reject that label. I am an woman, the cunty kind, if you need a qualifier.

So if you don't like the term cisgender then respect that trans women are women and trans men are men. And if you don't have a gender identity that by definition would mean you are transgender.

Wow. Not subscribing to gender ideology doesn't make us transgender.

I am a woman and I reject the stereotypes you aim to force on us.

Why do you hate women so much?

So if you don't like the term cisgender then respect that trans women are women and trans men are men. And if you don't have a gender identity that by definition would mean you are transgender.

That's impossible. 'Trans women are women' is an unsubstantiated statement of belief, not a fact. It's a belief I don't share. You cannot enforce this belief on others. Not having a gender identity doesn't make me transgender any more than the fact I don't believe in god and therefore am not a Christian would make be a Buddhist.

@FlibbertyGiblets well using gender critical logic and the logic produced here, you should probably not use the term woman as it is a gender term and use the term female or create another term. Because if trans women aren't women then females who don't identify with the woman gender can't be women either.

And if you don't have a gender identity that by definition would mean you are transgender

I don't have a gender identity. So in your rather binary conceptualisation I am transgender.

[quote ASugar]@acatcalledjohn Incorrect. You do not need to be biologically female to be a woman.[/quote]
This isn’t correct you do to be a woman

I know people will assert otherwise but it doesn’t change biological reality

@rozettamodeau

Feminism has a long history and in this history there have been debates on what 'women' are. It follows there have been multiple perspectives on what 'women's rights' are or should be. Here I only see ONE perspective that is based on genitals/sex. This is the problem, not the debate itself, but the ganging up on those who disagree.

As opposed to merest dissent will get you a pile on and life time ban from certain platforms, demands you lose your job, reports to the police, threats of rape and death.

Yeah, Woman on Mumsnet are just the worst for being pro-women and defending our rights.

Rozetta as the OP has left, could you explain to me why you think transwomen and women are the same?

We have different sexes, genders, medical needs, so what makes us the same?

Woman simply means adult human female. Like a doe is a female deer. It is not a "gender term". Deer don't have genders.

[quote ASugar]@EdgeOfACoin commonly a woman is someone who is born female as assigns themselves to being female, however you can be born female and not identify with being a woman and you can be born male and identify with being a woman.

A woman is someone with she/her pronouns and who identifies themself with the female sex.[/quote]
What is your objective, non-circular definition of the noun woman?

@rozettamodeau

Feminism has a long history and in this history there have been debates on what 'women' are. It follows there have been multiple perspectives on what 'women's rights' are or should be. Here I only see ONE perspective that is based on genitals/sex. This is the problem, not the debate itself, but the ganging up on those who disagree.

Feminism is a response to women's oppression. Throughout the millennia, in pretty much every culture, that's been on the basis of women's sex, often specifically controlling our reproductive function.

Sorry I am actually leaving for work now. Please continue the discussion kindly 🤍

We will. Have a good day OP!

not every trans woman or trans man wants to be identified as transgender

Well it's no life pretending to be something you're no it, or rather pretending you are not something that you are.

Literally no one cares if someone is transgender in this day and age.

Apart from the minority of violent homophobic, predatory men, who present an equal risk to women, (which is why we don't want to open the doors to women's spaces to them by them sticking a wig on and uttering some magic words..... ) No one cares.

There are thousands of Kathoey in Thailand Hijras in India. They have their place in society and special laws built to accommodate them. They do not pretend to be the same as the opposite sex and would never dream of it. They have existed since historic records began.

This idea of "stealth", that is to pass so well no one noticed therefore you can use spaces not designed for you, is harmful, wrong and dangerous.

This idea of "stealth", that is to pass so well no one noticed therefore you can use spaces not designed for you, is harmful, wrong and dangerous.

And not possible for the majority of trans people, as their sex is clear to people.

And I'm sorry if anyone feels 'ganged up on', but that's simply a reflection of the fact that this is a feminist board, and significantly is on a parenting website which is a place where sex is somewhat fundamental.

ASugar Id happily agree to be female, use female only spaces, seperate to women and women only spaces.

Would you agree with that? Because whenever I have seen it suggested it has been met with cries of transphobia, and some transwomen insisting theyre too are female.

[quote ASugar]@BlackWaveComing I'm sorry but cisgender isnt a slur and within this discussion it is necessary to use. MumsNet can state what they want on that however if the term cisgender is offensive then the term transgender is equally offensive and shouldn't be used.[/quote]
I’m sorry but asserting biological reality that trans women are not women isn’t a slur and within this discussion it is necessary to use.

well using gender critical logic and the logic produced here, you should probably not use the term woman as it is a gender term and use the term female or create another term. Because if trans women aren't women then females who don't identify with the woman gender can't be women either.

A woman is an adult human female. It is not a gender term. It is a biological fact.

Gender identity ideology is fundamentally anti-feminist, in my view.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

There are people with wombs

People with wombs, eh? What about the ones with vaginas but without wombs? Are they all men? Or a third category? As you appear to be using "people with wombs" as a synonym for "woman?"

Your tone is provocative and you are trying to change the subject. You are simply doing what I have just described.

Yes there are people with wombs or with vaginas without wombs whom your gang (and I only call it that ofter observing it acting as one) wants to excusively recognise as women. But you do not represent us. Those of us who post on other mumsnet fora. You don't represent us, but now I feel like I never want to never use this site again.

now I feel like I never want to use this site again.

Your tone is provocative and you are trying to change the subject. You are simply doing what I have just described.

I'm not changing the subject. I don't accept that your casual female erasure is ok. I found that "provocative".