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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Trans rights are a part of women's rights

999 replies

ASugar · 04/03/2021 09:16

Trans people don't negatively affect women's rights. They are a part of the women's rights. Both trans men and trans women experience oppression based on being female/a woman.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 11:06

@daybath everything I have mentioned is backed by science.

OP posts:
DayBath · 04/03/2021 11:07

[quote ASugar]@daybath everything I have mentioned is backed by science.[/quote]
No, it's really not.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2021 11:08

We think that essentially making fun of someone's pronouns (and thus their deeply-felt sense of identity) is just not likely to take us anywhere closer to reasonable and civil conversations.

I took that post to be a Reductio ad absurdum logical argument not intended to make fun of pronouns per se, but more to expose the falsity of the inference that any reality is conferred by the use of a pronoun. Perhaps it was a bit to extensive for clarity of purpose?

Using a pronoun 'majesty' and then expecting someone to treat you as a monarch is clearly absurd.

Winesalot · 04/03/2021 11:08

[quote ASugar]@Avenueofcherryblossom Yes, you still have that right.[/quote]
Yet, we are told that to request this is transphobic. Constantly. A woman who requested it was used as an example of transphobia in the NHS.

So, why are people telling women it is transphobic to request a same sex hcp?

BelleSausage · 04/03/2021 11:08

There seems to be lots of threads looking for screenshots at the moment.

BlackWaveComing · 04/03/2021 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Erkrie · 04/03/2021 11:09

Why has my post been deleted for asking someone's pronouns and saying I would validate them? I was genuinely interested. Angry

MNHQ
RowanMumsnet · 04/03/2021 11:09

@Kettlingur

Just for clarification, is it now "in the spirit" to post threads aimed at grabbing screenshots for a twitter audience outside MN?
The OP has apologised for that and explained it was sarcasm.
Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 11:09

@Winesalot I personally wouldn't agree that it is transphobic however you can request a doctor of the same sex as you.

OP posts:
Winesalot · 04/03/2021 11:10

[quote ASugar]@daybath everything I have mentioned is backed by science.[/quote]
Please post the evidence so we can all read it and maybe understand the angle you are coming from. Maybe we can add some of our own to help clarify.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2021 11:10

@Kettlingur

Just for clarification, is it now "in the spirit" to post threads aimed at grabbing screenshots for a twitter audience outside MN?
The poster seems not to be doing that. Given that others are, it's hardly surprising many took the sarcastic comment at face value.
Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 11:10

@BlackWaveComing I've not been rude in this discussion or thread.

OP posts:
BlackWaveComing · 04/03/2021 11:11

[quote ASugar]@daybath everything I have mentioned is backed by science.[/quote]
This is not true.
I almost feel sorry for you.
Every assertion you make has poor evidence at best, and often no evidence.

Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 11:11

@Winesalot I don't know exactly how to link things on here however if you look at the NHS inclusive language document a lot of it is explained there.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2021 11:12

don't know exactly how to link things on here

You just copy and paste the link into the text box.

DayBath · 04/03/2021 11:12

[quote ASugar]@Winesalot I personally wouldn't agree that it is transphobic however you can request a doctor of the same sex as you.[/quote]
You are wrong. At staff training we were told anyone requesting this should be refused treatment and could be banned from Trust services for transphobia. Women's medical choices are being taken away from them and their health is being risked to avoid hurting other people's feelings.

OldLang · 04/03/2021 11:14

Well, it's a fundamental and (to quote @MNHQ) "deeply-felt" belief of mine that gender is oppressive and harmful to everyone.
I, therefore, vehemently reject anything associated with it, and only recognise sex as being a legitimate system by which to classify humans (equal classes of course, but different nonetheless).

Enforcing gender ideology on me is against my rights to freedom of thought, belief and religion as stated in Article 9. I am causing no harm in my beliefs and practices to protect and assist biological women as necessary.

Horrifying that a site made for mums (a uniquely female experience) will faciliate the erosion of the women it supposedly exists to support and help.

BlackWaveComing · 04/03/2021 11:14

[quote ASugar]@BlackWaveComing I've not been rude in this discussion or thread.[/quote]
You are being extremely rude, coming here to monopolize - not once, but twice! - women's attention with poorly thought out claims relying on emotional manipulation
I'm sorry you can't see that.

If you desire not to be rude, can I suggest actually engaging with the many women who have politely asked you to define terms and clarify your assertions, and/or spend some time listening in a room you've just entered, before beginni g poorly thought out threads.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 04/03/2021 11:15

You're suggesting trans men are really women?

By the TRAs' definition that's transphobia. I don't somehow think they will thank you for that observation.

jellyfrizz · 04/03/2021 11:15

@ErrolTheDragon

We think that essentially making fun of someone's pronouns (and thus their deeply-felt sense of identity) is just not likely to take us anywhere closer to reasonable and civil conversations.

I took that post to be a Reductio ad absurdum logical argument not intended to make fun of pronouns per se, but more to expose the falsity of the inference that any reality is conferred by the use of a pronoun. Perhaps it was a bit to extensive for clarity of purpose?

Using a pronoun 'majesty' and then expecting someone to treat you as a monarch is clearly absurd.

But equally queengender is a recognised gender so why is one person’s stated gender accepted and not another’s? How to judge ‘deeply held based on words on a page?
Winesalot · 04/03/2021 11:17

[quote ASugar]@Winesalot I personally wouldn't agree that it is transphobic however you can request a doctor of the same sex as you.[/quote]
Ok. Do you understand the gravity of the NHS using a woman's letter to request that as being transphobic?

Do you understand that this is just ONE conflict of the rights of others?

Do you believe that women fighting to maintain the particular integrity of this right should not be supported as it has clearly been evidenced that it is actually happening?

JosephineBaker · 04/03/2021 11:17

@goodmonson

Does anyone know of any good forums where people can go to discuss facts rather than dance around lies and contradictions?
Message @ Ovarit on Twitter for an invitation
Alltheprettyseahorses · 04/03/2021 11:17

Transwomen are mental is a very strange typo. What would it even be a typo for? It comes across more like predictive text automatically filling in a commonly used phrase.

Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 11:17

@BlackWaveComing where have I been rude?

OP posts:
Terranean · 04/03/2021 11:19

Hear hear! @OldLang