Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

[Nightinghawk]

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

I've got a funny feeling that 'spoons' to describe chronic fatigue and chronic pain conditions might have started on Mumsnet! It was certainly popularised here.

Although some of the posters on the current chronic pain threads in General Health say they would prefer the analogy of using batteries, as in 'I have five batteries per day, and today I've already used four, and I've still got to do x, y, z', as they find the 'spoons' analogy a bit annoying.

These are posters with some of the most serious health conditions I've ever read about.

I can see it may be a useful metaphor but it's really not in widespread use.

Although some of the posters on the current chronic pain threads in General Health say they would prefer the analogy of using batteries, as in 'I have five batteries per day, and today I've already used four, and I've still got to do x, y, z', as they find the 'spoons' analogy a bit annoying.

I think if someone wants to convey how they are feeling (and why they might not feel up to something because of chronic pain or illness) it would be far more helpful to use words that are already in use and are easily understood by people.

You can’t really get annoyed with people for not understanding your situation if you describe it using words that are only understood by a small minority of people.

That link to the definition of multigender is quite worrying. Obviously it’s easy to take the piss, but the level of self policing required, the enforcement of hierarchy and deliberate othering of people who don’t follow or know the rules (which don’t seem to be consistent) is not good.

I knew the analogy which is why I asked them to reply when able but this was discounted in their "report" along with the fact that they had not declared they had a health condition until posters who didn't understand the spoons reference queried them on what they meant. They took this as proof that MN is disablist.

This forum is pretty unusual in finding "spoons" theory weird. It's hugely common - I've heard it repeatedly, and a simple Google sees it's referenced on a bunch of medical sites and Wikipedia as a "popular way od describinf chronic illness".

The original story it came from is here - butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

I've definitely seen it used on MN before as well.

@JaneJeffer

From their previous tweets I don't think the OP of this thread is a young person.

This op is 20. The other thread's OP is 25.

NB, this information is quickly and easily available from entirely public sources. Posted on their twitter bios, in fact (in case I am accused of some level of doxxing).

Do you believe everything people on twitter put in their bios StrangeLookingParasite?

I don't think the theory is 'weird', now I know what it is. But I don't think it's 'hugely common' either. Maybe on some internet platforms/groups it is.

@Impatiens

Do you believe everything people on twitter put in their bios StrangeLookingParasite?

Why would they lie about being 20 and 25, and what, by the way is your problem?

This op is 20
I just find it strange that a 20 year old would refer to young people in the way they do. Surely a 20 year old is themselves a young person?

Not everyone can be familiar with all cultural references. It's something I knew and could describe, but I'm also of the Extremely Online generation (and joined MN when I was 21, so I'm still going to be amongst the younger cohort).

I don't find it reasonable to draw conclusions about someone's attitudes towards disability from their familiarity with spoon theory though.

My problem? No problem, just a straight question. People lie in their bios for various reasons - because they want to identify with particular group/wishful thinking/wanting to ensure anonymity/grooming etc etc.

Mumsnet mobile (and, to an extent, the desktop site) IS an accessibility nightmare and also just a really poor user experience - it's why I very rarely ever reply to comments that reply to mine, because how the fuck are you supposed to find them again? PARENT/CHILD COMMENTS ARE A THING, MUMSNET.

Also I feel it's FWR at its finest that I commented on this thread when it was at a few pages, come back and there's been 700- comments focusing on one specific aspect of what OP said 🙃

[quote TheChampagneGalop]Seems like OP hasn't been impressed by the responses here.
twitter.com/Nightinghawk/status/1368216021253906441[/quote]
I appear to be blocked on Twitter by the OP 😬

Posted too soon - I never post anything at all on Twitter so it must be that I'm on a naughty list because of whom I follow.

They really do like to operate in an echo chamber.

@ErrolTheDragon

I don't think the theory is 'weird', now I know what it is. But I don't think it's 'hugely common' either. Maybe on some internet platforms/groups it is.

Agree with this.

I think in the same way that people who have preferred pronouns need to let people know about that (if they would be upset by being referred to by the “wrong” pronoun in their absence), people need to explain when they are using a term that’s uncommon outside of their friendship/common interest group.

When I worked as a family support worker I would ask other professionals in meetings to explain any acronyms and uncommon words and phrases they used. It’s alienating for families not to understand what is being said about them or to them.

It’s a common mistake people make when they aren’t regularly exposed to views that are different from their own.

@NoraEphronsNeck

Posted too soon - I never post anything at all on Twitter so it must be that I'm on a naughty list because of whom I follow.

They really do like to operate in an echo chamber.

I have two accounts; it's fascinating to see the twitter world (and the misogyny) when you're not blocked for over womaning.

Isn't multigender just "I have an extensive wardrobe?"

In this case, I'd guess it's a term that someone might not realise wasn't necessarily widely known. Everyone is liable to forget that their familiar idiom may be incomprehensible jargon to someone else.

@NoraEphronsNeck

Posted too soon - I never post anything at all on Twitter so it must be that I'm on a naughty list because of whom I follow.

They really do like to operate in an echo chamber.

Yeah me too. I have RTd a couple of Fionne Orlander’s pictures of cute things which is obviously evil.

Your username is awesome. I too am worried about mine.

Can you imagine wanting to keep track of everyone you disagree with on twitter and then making a blocker that blocks users who follows those people?

@TheChampagneGalop

Can you imagine wanting to keep track of everyone you disagree with on twitter and then making a blocker that blocks users who follows those people?

A couple of years ago, no I couldn’t.

But now it’s commonplace to hear of people going to extreme measures to suppress views that don’t align with theirs.

It’s started with #nodebate and no-platforming and has got steadily worse.

@Wesaed

This forum is pretty unusual in finding "spoons" theory weird. It's hugely common - I've heard it repeatedly, and a simple Google sees it's referenced on a bunch of medical sites and Wikipedia as a "popular way od describinf chronic illness".

The original story it came from is here - butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

I've definitely seen it used on MN before as well.

I don’t think it’s that well known outside of chronic illness forums and the like.

I doubt many people outside conception forums would know what EWCM is or what temperature tracking is.

Also I feel it's FWR at its finest that I commented on this thread when it was at a few pages, come back and there's been 700- comments focusing on one specific aspect of what OP said

We are focusing on that one aspect because the op posted on Twitter saying that we are ableist because we questioned what the spoon theory was.