Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

[Nightinghawk]

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

I do think that it helps to know the age/stage of life people are at when they come here to discuss this and related issues.

I’d be a lot more patient and longsuffering if I knew I was speaking to someone very young with hardly any life experience and likely lacking the critical thinking practise to even be able to grasp much of such complex and nuanced discussion...

I’d be a lot more patient and longsuffering if I knew I was speaking to someone very young
Yes but I would still expect them not to lie

I am blocked on Twitter by the OP despite never having heard of them. Obviously using a generic blocker

For anyone else blocked and interested in their Review of Mumsnet, the thread has been archived here:

archive.is/YLnnc

Other threads archived previously:
<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/twitter.com/Nightinghawk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.is/twitter.com/Nightinghawk/

Earlier incarnations of this person cite pronouns as "They/He" and They/He appears to have a bit of an obsession with lesbians - who are evil, obviously

I do believe it's a bad faith discussion when someone "went on mumsnet to see how much they all are willing to say they're transphobic."

Agree. If I started an "I think dog owners are really selfish and dogs should always be on leads, what do you think?" thread on the doghouse board, of course I would get a particular response. (NB: I don't think this!)

if it feels mentally exhausting from a non disabled point of view, can only imagine how it may feel if you are.

It's an anonymous forum. There is no way to judge anything except what is posted.

@TheChampagneGalop but how else I are they going to cry for attention if not by deliberately stirring the pot and only taking what suits them from it? They clearly have not much else going on in their lives if they’ve had to come to mumsnet to generate Twitter attention.

I think the only solution is to calmly engage with the arguments whilst showing sympathy for their position. Then imagine how the ultimate result if the ideology the are promoting is worse for them and devalues them and ask them about this.

Someone viewing things only from their own perspective is unlikely to have a great deal of empathy for anyone else's. Some of the transgender ideologies are attacking the trans person at a very base level. Our sex is wired into our DNA at a cellular level. Validating feeling an uneasy dissonance between mind and body, is pretty much saying, "You are correct to feel unease, your body is wrong for you! You need special treatment. Medical treatment. Special dispensations".

Instead we should be saying, "You are not wrong to feel an unease. Your unease is because society is broken. Your gender ID is not wrong for your sex. Society is far too restrictive over its expectations over what it means to be a particular sex. Your sex and gender ID do go together. They are both part of you. It is ok to feel like you do, it's a natural response to your environment. Lots of people feel like you do.".

I am nonbinary trans previously they were a multigender lesbian though according to their Twitter?

Nightinghawk what have you got to say for yourself?

Blimey, well I can really see them wanting to come back to answer that straight away, sounds like head teacher standing over you at the front of the class lol
Maybe they might just self flagellate for repentance instead

@JaneJeffer

I am nonbinary trans previously they were a multigender lesbian though according to their Twitter?

What is a multi gender lesbian??

@TheChampagneGalop

I do believe it's a bad faith discussion when someone "went on mumsnet to see how much they all are willing to say they're transphobic."

Yep.

I suppose all this is to say, I went on mumsnet to see how much they all are willing to say they're transphobic, and I found out that there's a lot more ableism and classism instead. Most of the transphobia I did see was expected and entirely not new.

Came to see the transphobia on MN, disappointed not to find any so decided to accuse MN of something else instead (at a safe distance on twitter). Well done you.

Came to see the transphobia on MN, disappointed not to find any

?
It says here they did see

Most of the transphobia I did see was expected and entirely not new

What is a multi gender lesbian??
Your guess is as good as mine.

@Mockolate

Nightinghawk what have you got to say for yourself?

Blimey, well I can really see them wanting to come back to answer that straight away, sounds like head teacher standing over you at the front of the class lol
Maybe they might just self flagellate for repentance instead

Oh are you their representative now?

@Mockolate

Came to see the transphobia on MN, disappointed not to find any

?
It says here they did see

Most of the transphobia I did see was expected and entirely not new

But strangely they couldn't give any examples...I expect they meant TWANW. That's not 'transphobia'.

Oh are you their representative now?

No, where do you get that from?

Was just commenting, (like people tend to do on here) how it reminded me of being told off at school as in when I'd get "and what do you have to say for yourself, young lady?"

I will say what is permitted without needing your approval @Mockolate

I will say what is permitted without needing your approval

WTF, where are you getting I'm telling you what to say, lol?
Comment what you like!
It was a lighthearted comment.
Am I not supplying sufficiently agreeing posts, or having the audacity and the gumption to post something you don't want to hear?
Then people say it's not hostile on here.
Can't think why lol

it's hostile , even

You have criticised the way I asked a question of the OP just because you don't like the way I asked it @Mockolate.

@JaneJeffer

I’d be a lot more patient and longsuffering if I knew I was speaking to someone very young Yes but I would still expect them not to lie

Oh yes quite right. I was speaking in a general sense, not just about this thread/OP.

I get a kind of person in pain vibe from those tweets. As eaglerising says calm engagement is the only way to engage, although I know it's difficult to meet hostility this way and am guilty of hot headedness as much as anyone, especially with real consequences for girls and women being disregarded as trivial or non issues.

The sad thing is, I think that person would find a lot more acceptance if they dismantled their rigid thinking about gender and just learned to love themselves as they are, as a unique person on the spectrum of personality, not gender.

I hope that as they are young there's still time for them to grow into the self confidence it takes to be happy with the person they are without demanding the world see them in a certain way.

From their previous tweets I don't think the OP of this thread is a young person.

Both of our recent joiners from Twitter seem quite fragile in much the same ways. It will not be appreciated, but they kind of have my sympathy as they seem to be struggling. I don’t wish that on anyone, no matter how infuriating and silly their actions here are.

The narcissism is irritating though- fair enough that life can get it the way, I’ve often posted and not been able to come back. But what on earth would make OP think that the same wouldn’t apply to every other poster here? We’re not all sitting with baited breath for your next great pronouncement on how dreadful and ignorant we all are.. Engage if you have the energy, don’t if you don’t, but don’t come looking for a debate then berate us when you get it!

@TheBuffster

I get a kind of person in pain vibe from those tweets. As eaglerising says calm engagement is the only way to engage, although I know it's difficult to meet hostility this way and am guilty of hot headedness as much as anyone, especially with real consequences for girls and women being disregarded as trivial or non issues.

The sad thing is, I think that person would find a lot more acceptance if they dismantled their rigid thinking about gender and just learned to love themselves as they are, as a unique person on the spectrum of personality, not gender.

I hope that as they are young there's still time for them to grow into the self confidence it takes to be happy with the person they are without demanding the world see them in a certain way.

Agree

@JaneJeffer

From their previous tweets I don't think the OP of this thread is a young person.

Doesn’t it say they are 20 on twitter