Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

[ool0n]

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

[quote ool0n]@JoodyBlue - If "Gender ID changes all the time", why has conversion therapy on trans people (Children and Adults) been as much a failure as conversion therapy on gay people? Literally physically and mentally torturing trans people to change their gender identity doesn't work, hasn't ever worked. You make it sound like it's choosing a set of clothes, if someone said to me "wear this or I'll electrocute you", I'd be chill OK, I'll wear it now! Trans people literally can't change their identity even if they wanted to, same as gay people can't change their sexuality.[/quote]
Ah! You have over egged it there!

Literally, figuratively!

@NotTerfNorCis

Congratulations to MNHQ for your elegant handling of TRA criticism on Twitter today.

'mumsnet' is trending right now!

Got to love a bit of Spring sunlight.

@CuriousaboutSamphire believe me I'm grouchy about just about everything

In essence we're asking two groups of people who are absolutely at loggerheads to engage with each other in reasonably good faith here. It's difficult all round so we're just trying to keep a light-ish hand on the tiller and remind everyone that some things (deliberate derailing, not actually engaging, only here for the screenshots) are not going to help.

Obviously there will be plenty of people on both sides who have no interest in a good faith debate (although we can see lots of people on this thread are doing just that) but we at MNHQ are really committed to it and we're willing to do our bit.

I still want to know more about how I can tell if I have two spirits, I think that sounds worrying. Is this only in specific cultures or is it common?

BigotryisBad I agreed people have the right to believe TWAW and asked questions about that belief, as I would about any belief system I didnt understand. No one answered, as is their right.

So what exactly is it you find offensive about my posts?

@bigotryisbad However, it's clear from this thread and others that this forum hosts and platforms those who lie about trans people and their rights.

What 'lies' would those be? I think you mean posters on here tell truths that trans activists don't like. They are happy to debate but they aren't going to lie for the sake of trans activist agenda or feelings. If that's what you were looking for, tough.

T

Trans people literally can't change their identity even if they wanted to, same as gay people can't change their sexuality.

But people do Pip Bunce.

I think you need to do a lot more research OP.

Trans people literally can't change their identity even if they wanted to

You haven't explained what gender identity is, or how it would be clear that it had changed.

Trans rights are absolutely human rights.
No one on this board wants trans people to face discrimination in their employment, housing etc. I think it's very disingenuous to suggest that anyone on here does.

But women do want to talk about their rights. This isn't transphobic, and it isn't an attack on trans people. It's about women. As in the people who have been discriminated against on the basis of their sex, who are now being told that gender identity is more important than sex. It's clearly a problem and women need a space to discuss it.

I also have no gender identity so 'cis' is misgendering. Which is 'literal violence' for trans people yet something women who disagree with it should simply accept. Odd.

I am deeply grateful to MN for allowing us this space, while also refusing to allow actually transphobic content, as is only right.

However, it's clear from this thread and others that this forum hosts and platforms those who lie about trans people and their rights.

Please point out what lies have been told about trans people and their rights? Please be very specific.

Oh course Soreen as food was brought up in this thread.

It must also be noted that it has been a product that many ethnic minority people in the UK have happily consumed as a staple for decades.

Make of that what you will when a woman is posting on social media about getting them to stop advertising/making money.

@BaronessWrongCrowd

Of course trans rights are human rights, why on earth wouldn't they be? Woman's rights are human rights as well. They are not the same.

Transmen are transmen, Transwomen are transwomen.

I don't get what you are trying to imply. Also please don't try and goad the board with TWAW because it doesn't wash on here.

This post is both transphobic and threatening @BaronessWrongCrowd.

I presume I don't have to point out your further contributions, including those already deleted by MNHQ?

This is a discussion forum. You wont define what "I am a man" means to you but we can infer it means that everyone else must agree to anything you say.

If gender critical people think their body is their identity

To steal a joke from the late Ken Robinson-my body is just something to take my head to meetings

@CoffeeTeaChocolate

I don’t understand, if some cultures limit the number of gender boxes to five, isn’t that rather limiting?

And how do you know if you have two spirits? It that some conflicting gender spirits or is it some kind of multiple personality disorder?

It is indeed limiting, quite likely people who didn't feel they fitted in that 5 gender system. Maybe we should just let people self identify how they like? indiancountrytoday.com/uncategorized/two-spirits-one-heart-five-genders

@bigotryisbad explain how that quite is transphobic and threatening, please.

Are you saying that the post by @BaronessWrongCrowd that you quoted is trransphobic and threatening?

That's the oddest and most unsupportable accusation I've seen here in years!

transpeople literally cannot change their identity

What about the concept of gender fluid, isn’t that valid? I hope so!

In that case, is the identity unchangeable, but fluid...?

@ool0n

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights" twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

No, you can get a trans women are trans women.

@ool0n Maybe we should just let people self identify how they like?

So... you agree with the majority of posters here then? Good!

transpeople literally cannot change their identity

But they do de-trans though....can OP or anyone explain please?

CoffeeTeaChocolate

I still want to know more about how I can tell if I have two spirits, I think that sounds worrying. Is this only in specific cultures or is it common?

Best seeking clarification from northern american contingent sources.

ool0n
This is going to blow your mind.

Whatever way you draw up your gender stereotypes/'identities'
And however many of them you have
There will always be people who don't conform

Because stereotypes are bollocks and you can't fit people in boxes. Crazy innit?

@7Days

Gender identity is highly personal and many people feel its important to their sense of self.

But I dont see why someones own self assessment of their identity should trump biological sex, in certain limited circumstances.

Policy and law cant be driven by nebulous indefinable concepts, when there is a measurable and objective characteristic that correlates very very highly with reproductive function, size, strength, and rates of violent and sexual crime, at all times, in all cultures.

So why should identity trump biology in areas where biology is the salient metric?

I would love to hear an answer.

@ool0n

I reposted my own post - I think it ties in with your question, why don't we let people identify as they like
Most of the time - zero issue. Sometimes, yes, theres a conflict there. What do you think?

No... and people like Pips Bunce give that the lie on a weekly/daily basis!