FFS re. Hilaria & Alec Baldwin and normalisation of surrogacy

[PatienceVirtue]

www.etonline.com/hilaria-and-alec-baldwins-daughter-lucia-was-born-via-surrogate-161509

The Baldwins, a baby-hungry 'Spaniard' and rich Hollywood male, have had a sixth (sixth!) child six months after having their fifth. Apparently by surrogacy, well it wasn't carried by her obviously. Which means they implanted an embryo or embryos into some poor womb-holder while she was already heavily pregnant with their fifth child.

Why? FFS. I just don't understand it. Originally surrogacy was sold as solution to the utter misery of infertility and I feel a great deal of sympathy with this. But when it becomes the go-to of extremely wealthy families who already have numerous children (cf Kim Kardashian, Robbie Williams et al), then its exploitative and transactional nature is exposed.

I can't bear the way it's become so normalised to use women like ovens. Stop call it carrying a baby, like they're handbags. It's growing a baby from a microscopic dot to a newborn.

It was almost like she was giving birth herself

Or perhaps she is feeling like she's pregnant too...like this sister.

https://www.sheknows.com/parenting/articles/2410259/reddit-surrogate-sister-pregnancy-fight/

Would doctors really suggest this?

Because they get paid more.

Kidman had two adopted kids with Cruise. Her third child was her first biological and genetic child, her forth was a surrogacy arrangement.

For newcomers to surrogacy I share these previous threads.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3909725-Ukraine-surrogacy-trade

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3910223-Babies-stranded-in-Ukraine

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3952991-Media-Coverage-of-Surrogacy-is-biased-AIBU?pg=2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3606313-The-Rumplestiltskin-Law

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3782983-surrogacy-resource-thread-please-post-your-links-here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3474712-law-commission-review-of-surrogacy-laws-just-streamlining

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3424290-Law-Commission-consulting-on-paid-surrogacy-in-the-UK

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3622892-Law-Commission-Consultation-on-Surrogacy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3855758-Surrogacy-Consultation-Update

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3613356-All-male-Law-Commission-discussing-surrogacy

Thanks for posting all those links @OhHolyJesus

So many informative posts and links.

The Law Commission are due to present their proposals to parliament early in 2022 but I really feel there is a ramping up of pressure already. The Times (which has at least two senior journalists who have made use of surrogacy) carried THREE blatantly pro surrogacy articles in January alone.

I feel an urgency to push back harder.
So many people don't really think through the issues imo and the media so often print happy fluff pieces rather than engage in serious ethical discussion, the general public are very accepting I believe. Without any understanding of the wider implications.

"We are living each day, bonding, and grateful for all of the very special angels who helped bring Lucía into the world."

www.people.com/parents/hilaria-baldwin-welcoming-two-babies-back-to-back-after-miscarriage

"What being a celebrity surrogate is really like". Odd wording as of course the celebrity isn't the surrogate. Rich women having babies for poor nonentities is unlikely to catch on.

"after welcoming son Duke Rancic, Giuliana and Bill introduced Delphine, the French au pair who carried their son to term."

That's more like it. Get the au pair to provide the baby. And no doubt carry on doing all the housework and childcare afterwards. 🙄

pagesix.com/article/what-being-a-celebrity-surrogate-is-really-like/

@Clymene

I think this will increasingly become the norm. 'Too posh to push' will be replaced by 'too important to take the risk of gestating your own child'.

Someone will probably come up with something snappier. Too busy to bump?

Incidentally, I have had a c section. I have nothing against them before anyone jumps on me.

Paying other women to take the risks of pregnancy and deliberately subjecting your own child to trauma is I suspect going to come back to bite them on the arse one day.

Too swell to swell?

I did feel sorry for Giuliana Rancic. I used to watch her reality tv show when I was bored and didn't know any better. She has breast cancer and was already struggling with fertility but I remember her husband Bill, on the advice of her doctor, asking her to eat a bit more and she said she couldn't because of work. It seemed so backwards to me if you were trying for a baby, you would want your health to be tip top.

After son Duke was born, maybe when he was about a year or so old, they asked Delphine to do it again. Clearly that didn't happen as he is now 7.

Imagine being asked to do it again? As in that is now your purpose and having done it once how could you say no.

For the surrogate mothers who aren't financially motivated I think being a people pleaser is a strong part of agreeing to do it or even offering to do it. It's not your every day sort of favour is it?

@Clymene

I think this will increasingly become the norm. 'Too posh to push' will be replaced by 'too important to take the risk of gestating your own child'.

Someone will probably come up with something snappier. Too busy to bump?

Incidentally, I have had a c section. I have nothing against them before anyone jumps on me.

Paying other women to take the risks of pregnancy and deliberately subjecting your own child to trauma is I suspect going to come back to bite them on the arse one day.

Too genteel to gestate is what I meant.

I reckon Amy Schumer will be the next one. She will go up in my estimation if she repeats her really tough pregnancy herself.

It’s funny how it’s rarely seen with UK celebs, I’m guessing it’s because they don’t have hollywood money.

I remember watching Giuliana Rancic on her reality show. She seemed horribly detached from their baby as he was then, and it was very much Dad doing the parenting. I couldn't watch any more of it, I found it all quite upsetting. She's another one with very deep seated MH issues.

She totally has body mass issues she’s skeletal

In my workplace, the team is reporting lots of enquiries from would-be adopters, asking if they can start the process if the surrogacy laws become less strict for them(I hear protections for surrogate mothers removed). I think lots are watching and waiting for the outcome of the law commission.

Funny how they all admit that they
'are committed to becoming parents' but want to explore this just in case adoption doesn't work for them.
So they want to start adopting and also start searching for someone to be a surrogate mother.

FFS. It's not an insurance policy.
I feel like printing of the Children's Act and referring to it during video meetings, but I'll get accused of a being meno-pausal feminist.
Oh hang on a minute......

@EachandEveryone

I reckon Amy Schumer will be the next one. She will go up in my estimation if she repeats her really tough pregnancy herself.

It’s funny how it’s rarely seen with UK celebs, I’m guessing it’s because they don’t have hollywood money.

In U.K. law, there’s (rightly) a lot less about protecting the ‘intended parents’, so it’s probably less attractive here.

You’re also not allowed to pay women anything beyond ‘expenses’ so I would imagine it’s harder to find someone to be a surrogate mother too.

@EachandEveryone

I reckon Amy Schumer will be the next one. She will go up in my estimation if she repeats her really tough pregnancy herself.

It’s funny how it’s rarely seen with UK celebs, I’m guessing it’s because they don’t have hollywood money.

I don't think it's just that- you're looking at say £100,000 very top maximum.

There are plenty of British celebrities who could spend that as small change. Victoria and David Beckham for starters. And didn't Victoria Beckham suffer quite badly from endometriosis and might have difficulties with conceiving?

@EachandEveryone

Yes but both NK and SJP carried their first babies to term themselves? Its so arrogant to then wait and wait and just pay someone to do it. And dont get me started on the twin thing is that a conscious decision by all these celebs? They must have the highest multiple birth rate in the world in Hollywood.

I've said before but women who have actually been pregnant but then go on to use surrogacy are worse than a gay man doing so.

A man cannot ever understand what being pregnant is like. He may truly believe he is doing the right thing. He might be as respectful as he can towards the surrogate mother and once the child is there may very well love and care for the child.

A woman who has carried and birthed a child cannot claim ignorance.

That's an interesting point @MissBarbary - it does take an extraordinary level of detachment and othering to divorce your own experience of pregnancy and that of your 'carrier'. When I was pregnant I felt it in every cell of my body.

So they want to start adopting and also start searching for someone to be a surrogate mother.

FFS. It's not an insurance policy.

With adoption I'm sorry to say that from what I see it is considered a back up plan and 'second rate' due to the lack of a bio connection and likely 'damaged goods' (not my wording and I can't share where I've seen it). It's sick and I hate it. These are children.

Beresiner at the Times was asked about their pursuit of commercial surrogacy in the States before they ended up with Surrogate Mother Rebecca in the U.K., by the social worker at their parental order appointment. I fear that not only is it an 'insurance policy' but a strategic way to appear to have explored all the options before buying a baby and to also appear to be truly loving because they considered adoption.

I think Rosanna Davidson who had 14 miscarriages :-( had a surrogate for her first baby, and she isnt short of a bob or two but i dont think she has hundreds of thousands to spare. Ive always found her very annoying but her language about surrogacy was emotionally grateful and less sterile. But yeh on this side of the pond it is usually only done when the woman cant physically give birth.

Robbie Williams and Ayda used a surrogate for their third (and maybe 4th?).

It's not rich, famous women who feel the need to "be kind" and make the ultimate sacrifice to help out another woman...

I feel like it is like plastic surgery - initially the preserve of the super rich and the celebs and will soon be replicated across the population.

I've said before but women who have actually been pregnant but then go on to use surrogacy are worse than a gay man doing so.

I agree. These women who make much of the joys of having a new baby, who have been through pregnancy and childbirth (maybe straightforward maybe complicated and difficult) KNOW what a toll pregnancy and childbirth take on the body, they KNOW how they developed a bond with their baby whilst it was still months from being born, they have felt the wonder of the newborn baby in their arms, maybe breastfeeding, the strength of attachment, and yet they want another woman to do it all for them and give them the baby they have born. I find it incredible that they would do that. It's so depressing.

And yes, before I am chided, I do know that not every woman feels an instant love and bond with their new baby. Doesn't mean they want to give it away though.

I've said before but women who have actually been pregnant but then go on to use surrogacy are worse than a gay man doing so.
While I don't think surrogacy is acceptable in ANY case, I understand how a sister or friend would feel compelled to consider it for an infertile sister/friend. I often think there's naïveté on both sides in these types of circumstances. Women who experience infertility suffer a great deal and I have so much compassion for them...many would be thrilled with just one child. I still disagree if they chose surrogacy, but can understand they often act under a sense of desperation.

But for a woman who already gave birth and has a child?!?! How could she ASK that of another woman? It's just so egregious. She should know better...makes me wonder if class/race/entitlement play a part in these types of wealthy/celebrity transactions.

@EachandEveryone

I reckon Amy Schumer will be the next one. She will go up in my estimation if she repeats her really tough pregnancy herself.

It’s funny how it’s rarely seen with UK celebs, I’m guessing it’s because they don’t have hollywood money.

Considering how awful Amy's pregnancy was, I'd think worse of her if she asked someone else to carry her child.

It'd be like in that show Rome when Caesar's teenage nephew does something wrong where he's supposed to be punished, so they whip his slave.

But I prefer to think Amy won't do that...I'm a big fan of her's.