MOMA Bill back in the Commons today, Monday 1st March 5.15pm

[ConservativesForWomen]

New thread as previous one almost full.

List of speakers here, expected start time 5.15pm:

commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/document/45568/html

is the transcript available yet?

Transcript.

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-01/debates/AC381A72-B091-41E4-9388-96CB284F83A5/MinisterialAndOtherMaternityAllowancesBill

I thought Kim Johnson was pretty good. She talked about 'gender equality' but it was clear from the context that she meant sex. She talked unequivocally about women and mothers and our most basic rights. She expressed no regret over the amendments, or the fact that the word 'mother' is sadly legal, she didn't say anything about trans or LGBT or anything like that. She just wholeheartedly welcomed the bill, with a wish it could have gone further to cover other types of parental leave, and that it could have also covered Scotland, Wales and NI. Not sure about that last bit as this would surely be a devolved matter.

It's hard to make sense of what the other Labour woman Cat Smith said. It came across as a bit vague and fence-sitty but she did also mostly talk about women, didn't mention trans or quibble with the amendments.

Considering who could have turned up to speak from Labour, and considering the tone taken just a year ago, I was pleasantly surprised.

This is where you end up when you decide to believe in an incoherent ideology.

Penny Mordaunt:

...let me say in supporting them from this Dispatch Box that trans men are men and trans women are women, and great care has been taken in the drafting and accepting of these amendments to ensure that that message has got across.

Then a few seconds later:

I want the rights of all women to be taken care of and all men to be safeguarded, too.

There was a definite pause after the first part of this sentence, where she must have just realised that 'all women' according to her ideological position includes some male people, but (even more importantly) excludes some female people who might need the maternity provisions. So she has to start talking about 'all men' in the context of maternity.

thanks Old Crone
Cat Smith has had a baby whilst an MP
she has previously stated TWAW, she seems to be suggesting here that 'parental leave' should be available to all parents which kind of ducks the issue. I suppose male parents wouldn't need leave before birth.

She also talked about trans males in the context of being pregnant which is equally nonsensical because what she meant but couldn't bring herself to say was female people who are trans.

Lisa Nandy was running with the hare and hunting with the hounds on that one. If as she says, males can identify as women and actually become women, then women cannot have the safe women only spaces she maintains that she so compassionately cares about.

No respect for her. Just throwing out words and playing to where the most claps will come from.

Wondering if I can bring myself to read the transcript or whether Mordaunt, Jardine and Blunt will give me a rage-stroke.

If as she says, males can identify as women and actually become women, then women cannot have the safe women only spaces she maintains that she so compassionately cares about.

It's despicable gaslighting of vulnerable women to tell them they can have female only spaces when she includes males as women, she and all others who push this line should be ashamed of themselves.

Angela Rayner says that suicide rates, especially from Transgender backgrounds, are really a scourge on society.

Are there factual rates on suicides amongst different groups? How would they differentiate the causes, since even GIDS don't even look for different issues present in the children they enable to medically trans? What is a transgender background, your granny being transgender?

Also, if she just goes twaw and affirmation, how can people get the counselling and treatment that could make a difference to their view of themselves and help them to accept themselves and find some peace of mind.

Angela Rayner says that suicide rates, especially from Transgender backgrounds, are really a scourge on society.

I imagine she's conflating the TRA stats on suicide attempts in young people (which aren't particularly robust data) with actual suicide rates. This is false. There is no evidence that children and young people commit suicide more when they identify as trans.

Some rough stats on how often each speaker mentioned certain words:

Penny Mordaunt (Con)
Women/woman - 6 (excluding 'trans women are women', 'all women' and 'the word "woman"' when declaring it legally problematic)
Mother or mum - only ever used in quotes
Trans - 5
LGBT - 2

Cat Smith (Lab)
Women/woman - 6
Mother or mum - 0
Trans - 0
LGBT - 0

Crispen Blunt (con)
Women/woman - 8 (excluding 'trans women' and HoL quotes he disagrees with)
Mother or mum - 0
Trans - 16
LGBT - 6

Kirsten Oswald (SNP)
Women/woman - 5
Mother or mum - 1
Trans - 0
LGBT - 0

Christine Jardine (LibDem)
Women/woman - 1
Mother or mum - 1
Trans - 2
LGBT - 3

Kim Johnson (Lab)
Women/woman - 10
Mother or mum - 2
Trans - 0
LGBT - 0

Jim Shannon (DUP)
Women/woman - 0 (but one mention of a 'lovely lady')
Mother or mum - 3
Trans - 0
LGBT - 0

Wow, LangClegsInSpace, that's dismal from some of them.

640,370 live births in England and Wales in 2019

And all of them out of a female body.

640,370 live births in England and Wales in 2019

Not including over 2500 stillbirths or countless miscarriages (can't find accurate stats) - also out of a woman's body, every time

Crispin Blunt is just...gah!

Women’s rights must be protected, and reasonable provision must be made to protect women from threats that are real and evident. In reality, trans women pose no threat to women

How do you expect women's rights to be protected Crispin, when what you want, self ID, allows the Karen White's, Katie Dolatowski's and Barbie Kardashian's of the world access to us and our daughters in vulnerable states? You can't specifically protect women when anyone can be a woman.

Back when he threw his massive strop because a 'behind closed doors' deal wasn't stuck to and self id was scrapped, he implied that anyone thinking men would self id as women to gain access to women simply hadn't thought this through properly and lacked empathy.

www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/after-his-furious-public-spat-crispin-blunt-liz-truss-trans-rights

He also said of other countries that have introduced self id: "Has there been any threat from those people who so self identify? Has anything actually happened?”

Other countries? Look on your own fucking doorstep, here in the UK, Blunt. We haven't even got self id and we've had problems. (And when I say look, I mean properly look and not just skim read and conveniently miss the things you don't want to see.)

How many women or children being victims of this will it take before people stop pretending they can't see any problems? How many before they stop being dismissed as 'isolated incidents?'

Re Penny Mordaunts reference to the word women causing legal problems it is only due to the changes that were brought in with the GRC. Of course there will be problems .we have told her so. It can only get worse .

Penny Mourdant and Crispin Blunt for example.....

Thanks everyone for the rundown.
Thanks Lang for those word stats.

I wonder how Penny Mordaunt and Crispin Blunt think #nodebate is going for them?

Just off to check if John Crace has taken this apart in the G. It would provide material for a while. Marina Hyde might also do a good job ..

@Dalyesque

Just off to check if John Crace has taken this apart in the G. It would provide material for a while. Marina Hyde might also do a good job ..

I suspect they will both steer clear.

"Has there been any threat from those people who so self identify? Has anything actually happened?”

• yes, Crispin. Yes it has. Want to hear about it?

Maybe Private Eye will pick up on the madness of a maternity bill having to have copious references to males?

Thanks everyone for this thread. Just catching up because yesterday was out.
I am guessing Joanna Cherry et al didn't speak because their requirements had been met. Mother doesn't cause legal issues. The thing is, a conversation is now to be had. The HoL brought a whole shed load of issues out into the open. The zealots are hoping mad because it's just one more boundary, one more line in the sand.