An inclusive way to be gender critical?

[pensivepigeon]

My thoughts on gender and sex are thus:

Gender is a social construct. It is how society and individuals view the presentation of the sexes - in fashion, interests and work roles. Whereas sex is biological, we cannot change it even though we might surgically change our appearance and take artificial hormones which affect our bodily functions.

However because gender is a social construct and we are part of society we can define it. I define gender as

Female = adhering or not adhering to traditional stereotypes regarding names, fashion, interests and work roles.
Male= adhering or not adhering to traditional stereotypes regarding names, fashion, interests and work roles.

If everyone took this on board it would mean safe single sex spaces could be preserved, as people could present themselves however they want, wear what they want but use the single sex space appropriate for their sex without conflict. Uniforms would offer everyone both traditional female and male options which either sex could wear. Ditto with sports, competing takes place within the appropriate sex classes but competitors can wear either the traditional male or female competition uniforms. There would be no confusion and need to agonise over language when providing medical care.

Taking this stance stance means I have no problem when it comes to saying I am of female sex with a female gender.

So am I gender critical? Is this inclusive?

99.9% of all sexual offences and almost 86% of all violent crimes committed by members of male sex . Transwomen and men share the same patterns of criminality. So pretty obvious women must be vulnerable to the male sex. As to why I think that is just blatantly obvious

@sanluca

I see we are back at the discussion about what is the definition of the word 'woman'. As usual the argument are that female humans should have a word that is only for them and not for any male, so they can effectively fight sexism and keep existing rights based on the fact they are female and not male, versus anyone can be a woman therefore female humans have no word to define themselves, fight sexism and keep existing rights based on the fsct they are female and not male.

Well, makes a change from 'you have always shared toilets with transwomen and never noticed' argument...

But that is true.

As much as women are refusing to have transwomen in, the reason it will never happen is because there is jack shit way to police it.
Other than asking transwomen to stay out and respect them, which I'm sure they will be jumping to do given the respectful voice of many feminists on here towards trans...

@334bu

99.9% of all sexual offences and almost 86% of all violent crimes committed by members of male sex . Transwomen and men share the same patterns of criminality. So pretty obvious women must be vulnerable to the male sex. As to why I think that is just blatantly obvious

Right.

So because males have the potential to rape and women don't, transmen are okay but transwomen aren't.

That is what it comes down to.

(There's a reason there are more male sex offenders than women, and it's not actually anything to do with their gender).

Transmen being female are not the threat males are to females

much as women are refusing to have transwomen in, the reason it will never happen is because there is jack shit way to police it.
Other than asking transwomen to stay out and respect them, which I'm sure they will be jumping to do given the respectful voice of many feminists on here towards trans

You've got a really low opinion of transwomen.

There's a reason there are more male sex offenders than women, and it's not actually anything to do with their gender).

Gender has nothing to do with it as transwomen and non binary male born people are just as likely to be sexual offenders as any other males

@CorvusPurpureus

*much as women are refusing to have transwomen in, the reason it will never happen is because there is jack shit way to police it. Other than asking transwomen to stay out and respect them, which I'm sure they will be jumping to do given the respectful voice of many feminists on here towards trans*

You've got a really low opinion of transwomen.

No, I really haven't. I have a low opinion of feminists spending their days criticising trans and then expecting them to respect them and do as they say.

@334bu

*There's a reason there are more male sex offenders than women, and it's not actually anything to do with their gender).*

Gender has nothing to do with it as transwomen and non binary male born people are just as likely to be sexual offenders as any other males

Yes...because...they are biologically male! And therefore have an ability to commit a crime women can't (and before anyone jumps up, I'm aware they CAN, but statistically it's far more likely with men. It doesn't make transwomen more of a threat, nor any average man more of a threat, but of course the sexual assault statistics will be higher for men and transwomen than women and transmen.

Rape is not the only sex offence and males manage to commit 99.9% of rapes and all the other sex offences, so not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you trying to imply that the 0.1% of female offenders is statistically the same?

@334bu

Rape is not the only sex offence and males manage to commit 99.9% of rapes and all the other sex offences, so not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you trying to imply that the 0.1% of female offenders is statistically the same?

No.

What I am saying is that the jump in statistics is not simply down to men being dangerous.

I think their victims might disagree.

@334bu

I think their victims might disagree.

Sorry.

ALL men being dangerous.

What I am saying is that the jump in statistics is not simply down to men being dangerous.

Of course they are dangerous, males who f all gender identities are statistically far more violent and likely to be a sexual predator than any females of any gender identity. This is why we have single sex spaces to protect the female sex from the male sex.

The reason for single sex toilets is not to 'protect women from men'.

I've avoided this thread for a while but have ended up reading the OP today. What a load of rubbish - OP on your logic effectively you are saying my sex is female but you are deciding my gender is male. You are forcibly "transing" me (and, I suspect, most women who don't conform to sexist stereotypes) which I absolutely reject. Your "solution" is no solution at all - the root of the issue is not about what people can wear. People have and will continue to dress as they please without being the opposite gender - look at Boy George and Maryln in the 80s - it is only recently that the trans lobby has tried to get everyone to conform to the gender stereotype rubbish.

The reason for single sex toilets is not to 'protect women from men'.

Funny, that appears to be the reason for them in some countries?

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/aug/28/toilets-india-health-rural-women-safety

I have a low opinion of feminists spending their days criticising trans and then expecting them to respect them and do as they say.

Well, ok, but no one is doing that, are they? Firstly I'd be pretty pissed off, if I saw myself as being transgender, to discover that some witless self proclaimed ally was suddenly using 'trans' as a collective noun. I would definitely not be a 'trans'.

That's not a respectful way to talk about people. 'Trans' is not a collective noun.

You're also completely off the mark in suggesting that feminists are expecting 'trans' to respect anything. Or do anything.

The whole point which is repeatedly whistling over your head, & I suspect through your ears, is that feminists will be talking about stuff that affects women.

That's the priority.

The reason for single sex toilets is not to 'protect women from men'

Privacy, dignity and also safety are the reasons for single sex toilets as evidenced by UN projects to open such toilets in n Third World countries.

Other than asking transwomen to stay out and respect them, which I'm sure they will be jumping to do given the respectful voice of many feminists on here towards trans...

As I've said many times before, it's not exactly a surprise that males don't respect women's boundaries.

Privacy, dignity and also safety are the reasons for single sex toilets as evidenced by UN projects to open such toilets in n Third World countries.

Yes, I posted a link to an article in the uber woke Guardian.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Other than asking transwomen to stay out and respect them, which I'm sure they will be jumping to do given the respectful voice of many feminists on here towards trans...

As I've said many times before, it's not exactly a surprise that males don't respect women's boundaries.

😴

@CorvusPurpureus

I have a low opinion of feminists spending their days criticising trans and then expecting them to respect them and do as they say.

Well, ok, but no one is doing that, are they? Firstly I'd be pretty pissed off, if I saw myself as being transgender, to discover that some witless self proclaimed ally was suddenly using 'trans' as a collective noun. I would definitely not be a 'trans'.

That's not a respectful way to talk about people. 'Trans' is not a collective noun.

You're also completely off the mark in suggesting that feminists are expecting 'trans' to respect anything. Or do anything.

The whole point which is repeatedly whistling over your head, & I suspect through your ears, is that feminists will be talking about stuff that affects women.

That's the priority.

I didn't call them a trans.

Trans in general as in trans issues as in trans. I am not the first to use that expression.

Mmm...I think if you read through any of the many repetitive threads which are well spotted by their 'aibu to think that women should be able to - insert reasonable thing here which no one can argue with - before dripfeeding the agenda, you will find that many posters expect transwomen to stay out of their spaces, indeed I've seen more than once that 'if they truly think they are a woman, they should understand us and give us our space!'

Thanks for calling me thick though.

@334bu

The reason for single sex toilets is not to 'protect women from men'

Privacy, dignity and also safety are the reasons for single sex toilets as evidenced by UN projects to open such toilets in n Third World countries.

Yes.

That's very different to protecting women from men.

So you don't think that women should have the right to female only spaces, Rooty?

We are going to part company there.

That's very different to protecting women from men.

Protecting them from rape is not protecting women from males? Did you not read the reasons for the need for female only toilets in the Third World?