History in the making! Watch Parliament Live at 2.30pm!

[Sunkisses]

According to @SexMattersOrg on Twitter the Govt have backed down on the MOMA (Maternity) Bill and will now use the word 'mother' not 'person' in the legislation!

Women did this! We are winning!

Tune in live here at 2.30pm to see history in the making: www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ca1efa2-16a5-489d-a5a0-5d929bff81f6

@NecessaryScene1

I have read through the last few pages and have seen a few references to the fact that it's important how many other matters the HoL have touched on.

Because almost no-one in either house of Parliament has dared ever mention this stuff. There's been a wall of silence on the subject of women's rights and what's been happening to them in the name of trans rights over the last 5-10 years.

We've just seen a huge group of parliamentarians, from almost every party, stand up to be counted.

2 years ago there was David Davies and Lord Moonie, and they were pretty much speaking into a void. This is a huge shift in the Overton window.

Sure, this is just one nominally minor bill, but this will not go unnoticed. This is a pivotal moment on the level of JKR's intervention.

I don’t know too much about impact of JKR intervention but this feels even bigger as it will change legislation. Hopefully even more - such as the census.

Sal Brinton very disingenuous there.

Says that it is factually incorrect to state that only women can become pregnant. Says it has been legally recognised that men, intersex and non binary people can also become pregnant. Who besides a biological woman has become pregnant? You can have a dsd and be female. You can call yourself 'non binary' (whatever that means) and be female.

Says We know that people who are legally male can give birth due to medical sciences as well as the law.

A woman who 'identifies' as a a man is not able to give birth because of advances in medical sciences. No more than anyone else with female biology. They give birth because they retain a female reproductive system and the law has allows them to be referred to men even though that is the case. They are only 'legally' a man. No special drugs or alternations needed for a woman today to be legally labelled a man.

Now, if Sal Brinton has stated that someone who had a female biology and identified as a man was able to sire a baby by producing their own sperm, that would have to be recognised as an advancement in medical science.

Declaring it an advance in medical science for someone with a female reproductive system producing an ovum (fertilised using a man's sperm) which they then carried in the normal way in their uterus and then gave birth...? What is new?

this feels even bigger as it will change legislation

Oh, it certainly should be. But then we thought JKR would have more impact at the time. Didn't want to jinx this one.

We'll have to see what the pushback to this pushback looks like.

Thank you all for reporting today's events. I can't tell you how happy it has made me, knowing that someone is listening to women's voices makes for such a novel idea.

I just listened to BBC PM in the hope of hearing some coverage of this debate. No mention whatsoever. I wasn't surprised though because that programme, led by Evan Davis, follows the Ben Hunte approach to impartiality and balance on the gender issue.

What the programme did have time for though was some dodgy survey from the US that 2% of Generation Z kids identify as trans.

That was so sensible
The modern trans movement seems less about dysphoria and more about social roles and stereotypes. Imo Freddie M planned the whole sorry scenario for ?? what attention? To be the first something? It sure wasn't about the needs of tge child. I don't believe that if a female person can carry a child and give birth they are triggered by the word woman or mother. I do believe they should lose their GRC
Baroness Barking did what all TRAs do. Talk about trans people when discussing women's issues/rights. I looked at her twitter timeline carefully but failed to see abuse from feminists

They all get it! It's like watching FWR on telly

I've only watched a bit, hope to see more later but yeah actually. Lord Winston was pretty good, I've heard 5 minutes of baroness nicholson and I applaud that woman. I think she has more to do with this than anyone else in the HOL.
Thanks to us all for our tireless emailing, thank you card sending, trying at least to see our representatives etc etc.

We have won this battle, the war will be ours eventually.

yes i just heard it in the car - dreadful that they could not even mention it and picked that random UK survey that found in the US there are more trans than lesbian and more women are prepared to say they are bi than men perhaps because men do not want the gay stigma.

Meanwhile in the real world away from the BBC women give birth and women breastfeed their babies as it always has been and as it always shall be.

Well that's charming.

Just finished listening - so many really good speeches and so many points made that show members of the House of Lords understand the wider issues. I've been feeling quite down recently, feeling that we're fighting a losing battle, but have been immensely cheered up this afternoon and feel very reassured that there is such a well informed cross-party group willing to defend women's sex-based rights. The Lib-Dems who spoke did not do their party any favours.

Catching up with this thread has made me very happy.
Particularly enjoyed Lord Winston's biology lesson.

While wonderful to see, this feels like a small victory where the tide is still very much going the other way. I feel so strongly about the preservation of women’s sex based protection and yet somehow this viewpoint has been made unspeakable. Even amongst my closest friends I can’t express the view that sex is a biologically determined fact not a feeling. I feel like such a coward staying quiet and in awe of those who have spoken up today and in the past. I want to do something, but scared to put head above parapet.

What has been the TRA reaction on Twatter?

Overall, I'd characterise it as "delayed". Some people are aware it was going on but it's waiting on TRAs in general getting their second or third hand pre-digested talking points before the ranting begins in earnest. The initial comments are effectively that the House of Lords needs to be no-platformed.

@Xanthangum

Well that's charming.

Xanthangum

Why do so may trans activists hope for the death of people who they disagree with like this? It's a repeated pattern and it's really not the vote winner they think it is.

@NecessaryScene1

I have read through the last few pages and have seen a few references to the fact that it's important how many other matters the HoL have touched on.

Because almost no-one in either house of Parliament has dared ever mention this stuff. There's been a wall of silence on the subject of women's rights and what's been happening to them in the name of trans rights over the last 5-10 years.

We've just seen a huge group of parliamentarians, from almost every party, stand up to be counted.

2 years ago there was David Davies and Lord Moonie, and they were pretty much speaking into a void. This is a huge shift in the Overton window.

Sure, this is just one nominally minor bill, but this will not go unnoticed. This is a pivotal moment on the level of JKR's intervention.

Ah okay, thank you.

From @LouHotel
I'm astonished their close to hitting every major issue brought up in the last few years and it's going to be all there in parliamentary record to hold lawmakers to account for decades.

and @Biscuitsanddoombar 's posts I had thought getting the references in meant there were perhaps more specific benefits but I clearly misunderstood.

Still fabulous to have them all mentioned!

Why do so may trans activists hope for the death of people who they disagree with like this?

Violence

the House of Lords needs to be noplatformed

Thank you for this thread, such heartening reading!

Could someone perhaps compile a list of all those who spoke in favour of the amendment for those of us not able to watch the hole debate so that we can email/write to them in thanks?

@Lettera listening to a podcast on trans people in rugby today, it was mentioned that DSD folk get frustrated when they're shoved into trans debates as if they're the same, when they really aren't. Not doing themselves (was it Baroness Brinton?) any favours in doing exactly that.

[quote gottakeeponmovin]@Joeblack066 Hi Joe - what do I as a female have in common with a transwoman that I don't have in common with man? Apart from propensity to wear a skirt I struggle with this one [/quote]
Let's not derail the thread with discussion of transwomen. Transwomen are not relevant to this issue.

Elated.

We could do with a thread with links to uplifting successes like this to refer back to when needing a bump to the spirits. Change is afoot. A big day today.

#MumsTheWord

That tweet above is just so classy and a true reflection of the be kind mantra.

Thank you so much for this thread, been working so not able to watch. Just starting to catch up with some of the speeches and must admit I cried listening to Lord Hunt. I can't believe how emotional it was to hear someone saying all the things I think. Just incredible.

Baroness Barker vs common sense is like social media silos meeting the rest of the world and explaining what's been going on. Slipping legislation that makes sweeping changes through before the science has been given a proper airing in the mainstream was always anti-democratic and thoroughly wrong. Including the minority with very specific and niche needs does not = women having to surrender their nouns.

Thanks Sunkisses and contributors for this. First time watching a HoL debate, are they all that good? Ongoing education, hanging around on here. V grateful. (Am someone who was fully swept up in TWAW position via social media until recentlyish.)