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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

History in the making! Watch Parliament Live at 2.30pm!

999 replies

Sunkisses · 25/02/2021 14:19

According to @SexMattersOrg on Twitter the Govt have backed down on the MOMA (Maternity) Bill and will now use the word 'mother' not 'person' in the legislation!

Women did this! We are winning!

Tune in live here at 2.30pm to see history in the making: www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ca1efa2-16a5-489d-a5a0-5d929bff81f6

OP posts:
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8
JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 25/02/2021 17:41

@Whatsnewpussyhat

This pisses me off so much. What fucking rights are being taken away from the tiny number of transmen who choose to use their female biology to have a child? Why the fuck should women and mothers have to change their language for a them because THEY have an issue with those words.

Who the fuck do they think fought hard for them to get MATERNITY rights in the first place? No fucking respect at all for women at all. Pure misogyny.

All they have to do is tell their own GP and midwife team to call them a man. Are they really that triggered by women using their own words?

But then we all know it isn't actually about transmen and all about dehumanising females by removing 'woman' from every single female only experience and biological

All of this.

If you choose to exclude yourself from the language of women, you can not demand that the language of everyone else must change to include you.

Original poster
Sunkisses · 25/02/2021 17:41

If anyone would like to thank any of this brilliant people - from all political parties - you can get their contact details here: www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/get-in-touch-with-members/

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 25/02/2021 17:41

I have never been in favour of an elected second chamber. There can be no meaningful checks and balances if there are not people there who know what they are talking about. I used to work for a member of the HoL whose knowledge of social housing in this country is second to none. If you have an elected chamber you end up with people who are of the same calibre as those in the HoC, and they are becoming notably dumber every time an election comes around.

Sexnotgender · 25/02/2021 17:41

@Sunkisses

"This extreme ideology does not want equal rights whilst recognises our differences. It wants to deny those differences exist at all. Happily that agenda has been rolled back today" - Lord Lilley (Conservative)
Fucking hell.

That’s amazing Star

Signalbox · 25/02/2021 17:43

So the McConnell case has been a positive for this debate too

Yes who could have foreseen that!

Maduixa · 25/02/2021 17:43

That was brilliant! I feel like I need a cigarette, even though I’m not a smoker. Thank you for posting it, sunkisses - I would never have thought to watch.

That was (is) what Parliament is supposed to do. Of course I don’t agree with everything everyone said - even those welcoming the revised language as I do - but it’s striking how refreshing and even shocking a lot of it felt. I kept thinking “wait - s/he can SAY that?” Or “wait - a LABOUR Lord said that!?” Over and over and over.

Also, it’s really good TV, and - as a few HOL speakers noted - some of it is pretty hilarious. I love the fact that whole discussion will be available on ParliamentTV for anyone (with an internet connection) to watch and listen and in Hansard to read the transcript.

I predict that some of this is going to be appreciated, quoted, referenced, viewed, and used far beyond the UK.

Xanthangum · 25/02/2021 17:43

I wonder if there is going to be a huge ' we have always been at war with Eastasia' kind of reverse ferret among civil servants and MPs after this.

(Although not from the LibDems, obviously.)

gottakeeponmovin · 25/02/2021 17:44

@Joeblack066 Hi Joe - what do I as a female have in common with a transwoman that I don't have in common with man? Apart from propensity to wear a skirt I struggle with this one

Olderstyle1 · 25/02/2021 17:45

'We are faced with a full-on attack on the rights of women'. Lord Lucas.

Praise the Lords. They actually get it. I could faint with joy and relief.

sashagabadon · 25/02/2021 17:49

@Xanthangum

I wonder if there is going to be a huge ' we have always been at war with Eastasia' kind of reverse ferret among civil servants and MPs after this.

(Although not from the LibDems, obviously.)

Yes I would say almost certainly. I am already seeing it a bit with regards “free speech”. Some activists claiming to have never supported no platforming etc
greatpurplepolkadots · 25/02/2021 17:51

Some of these speeches are absolutely beautiful and for many there is a huge amount of sincerity and passion coming through that is very moving.

I have read through the last few pages and have seen a few references to the fact that it's important how many other matters the HoL have touched on. Why is this? I don't understand how their individual opinions can be referred back to in other cases - surely it's only the decision on the amendment being debated that can be taken into account?

Hoping someone more well versed in this than me can explain!

PS: I think it is really important as many of us as possible take the time to write to those who have spoken out today on our behalf.

RedToothBrush · 25/02/2021 17:51

I must admit that when i first saw the report about bringing in the bill and the wording i thought it odd.

Its not in line with the rest of Conservative policy or thinking.

But this has come from the Cabinet and by all accounts the No10. is being heavily influenced by the PMs gf who is very pro-trans.

And thats where I think this has ultimately come from. A single activist in a key place, who then got very heavy push back...

Shedbuilder · 25/02/2021 17:52

Anyone else wondering whether the name checking of Freddy McConnell is careful placement designed to draw attention to what a ridiculous piece of legislation the GRA is? McConnell went to the trouble of obtaining a GRC, in which they swore to live in their acquired 'sex', shortly before becoming pregnant and giving birth.

When we revisit the GRA there's Freddy — a glaring example of how the GRA/ GRC is so easily abused.

OvaHere · 25/02/2021 17:53

@Signalbox

So the McConnell case has been a positive for this debate too

Yes who could have foreseen that!

I wonder if all this will be a positive towards shoring up protections for women in the upcoming surrogacy reforms too? The surrogacy lobby had a strong interest in the McConnell case succeeding also.
MingeofDeath · 25/02/2021 17:54

What has been the TRA reaction on Twatter?

Sexnotgender · 25/02/2021 17:55

Just played catch up. This is fantastic. Going to watch later ❤️

IsThePopeCatholic · 25/02/2021 17:55

@BitOfFun

"The rights of mothers trump those of the trans community."

This is the kind of clarity I'm here for.

Absolutely! Brilliant news.
Original poster
Sunkisses · 25/02/2021 17:55

Maya Forstater live tweeted the whole thing. Well worth a read too. A glorious day!
twitter.com/MForstater/status/1364947739440734217

OP posts:
Sexnotgender · 25/02/2021 17:55

@MingeofDeath

What has been the TRA reaction on Twatter?
I’m going to go look. I can just about hear the rage from here...
sashagabadon · 25/02/2021 17:56

@RedToothBrush

I must admit that when i first saw the report about bringing in the bill and the wording i thought it odd.

Its not in line with the rest of Conservative policy or thinking.

But this has come from the Cabinet and by all accounts the No10. is being heavily influenced by the PMs gf who is very pro-trans.

And thats where I think this has ultimately come from. A single activist in a key place, who then got very heavy push back...

I haven’t heard CS is pro trans? Where did you get that from? I had thought the opposite
Walkingtheplank · 25/02/2021 17:57

RedToothBrush, I hope I've misinterpreted your message and that you're not saying that civil servants wrote the bill in a gender neutral way because Boris instructed them to do so after being told what to do by Carrie "Lady Macbeth" Symonds.
Those pesky women using their feminine wiles...

Melroses · 25/02/2021 17:57

"I wonder if all this will be a positive towards shoring up protections for women in the upcoming surrogacy reforms too? The surrogacy lobby had a strong interest in the McConnell case succeeding also."

I was wondering why they went with McConnel giving birth, rather than probably the many who have legally transitioned M to F and subsequently fathered children being registered as mothers.

Cwenthryth · 25/02/2021 17:59

This is so so heartening!!!!

Thanks for the clip link OP, I’ve just read through the thread on the way home and going to watch it now that’s the evening sorted Grin

#MUMSTHEWORD!!!!!

NecessaryScene1 · 25/02/2021 18:00

I have read through the last few pages and have seen a few references to the fact that it's important how many other matters the HoL have touched on.

Because almost no-one in either house of Parliament has dared ever mention this stuff. There's been a wall of silence on the subject of women's rights and what's been happening to them in the name of trans rights over the last 5-10 years.

We've just seen a huge group of parliamentarians, from almost every party, stand up to be counted.

2 years ago there was David Davies and Lord Moonie, and they were pretty much speaking into a void. This is a huge shift in the Overton window.

Sure, this is just one nominally minor bill, but this will not go unnoticed. This is a pivotal moment on the level of JKR's intervention.

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