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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Have things gone too far?

338 replies

Okbussitout · 25/02/2021 08:51

I saw a tiktok comment thread saying that if you wouldn't have sex with a trans person you're transphobic. My thinking on this is sexuality is quite complex. But for example I've had gay friends say to me they feel really grossed out by the opposite sex genitals) both gay men and women) so if someone has a penis but presents as a woman (this isn't an argument about passing) then it's transphobic not to be attracted to them because they have genitals of the opposite sex that you are attracted to. Primarily I'd say I'm straight and a big part of that is my enjoyment of my partner's penis. (sorry that statement is tmi and redic to type)

This got me thinking about gc argument on here. For the first time I was thinking this doesn't make logical sense. You can dress how you want, call yourself what you want, use the spaces you want, as actually I don't think most trans people are a threat. I'm happy for trans women to be women. But I feel trying to dictate who people have sex is too much.

I'm sort of musing, but also wonder if actually on both sides there is such adversity that there's no going back? With increasingly wild arguments on both sides. So how would there be a way forward from here?

I'm wondering if trans people are angry because they feel their bodies don't match their gender in their head. I've had on and of mental health issues so can imagine this feels awful. I'm also fat so know what it's like to be discriminated against. Maybe gc women are angry because they already feel ver discriminated against and are now told the rights we have are not needed. So yeah I just wonder if this debate is at a point with no way forward reasonable way forward. I'd like to know people's views on this.

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jj1968 · 26/02/2021 22:04

Why would a heterosexual woman in Iran marry a 'man' with whom there was no possibility of children? Lesbian?

Possibly, possibly pushed into it by family, possibly love or maybe some other reasons. One of the things in the documentary I mentioned talked about how they'd found something in the Qu'ran which allows divorce if women have some kind of reproductive disorder, and so that meant a lot of them end up as sex workers, but they have to go to an Iman with the man and get a 24 hour marriage licence and then it's just about somehow within religious law. There could be all kind of strange rules and customs which may well include stealth lesbians marrying trans men who just keep putting off the surgery. I don't think Iran is really the way a lot of people presume, and that as long as people bodge a bit and don't piss off the local religious police they are freer than people imagine.

On a sidenote I've always found it quite funny how religious communities employ loopholes to get out of things they don't like, as if God would be like, damn you got me there and not throw them into the fiery pits of hell for being smart arses.

7Days · 26/02/2021 22:26

I suppose God is a cipher for morality in a lot of cases. (Disclaimer etc)
Twisting morality to suit yourself is a bit of a given for humanity.

334bu · 26/02/2021 23:30

How many people who don't see the need for sex based rights are pretty young so haven't had say the experiences around maternity or unfair treatment in the workplace?

I think you are right about this. They live in a world where they have been told they are equal and have not yet encountered the institutionalised sexism which older women know only too well.
They also can't believe that these rights which second wave feminists fought so hard for could disappear. Those of us who are older and know what it is like to suffer discrimination and have seen rights torn from women in other parts of the world, are a lot more cynical. Women are always told to put their needs last. A prime example here in Scotland is women being told to shut up in case we get in the way of independence. Well not this time, this time for all our sakes I hope to God women "won't wheesht".

7Days · 27/02/2021 00:04

It's a cliche in leftist circles isn't it.
Yes we'll get round to women's concerns. Right after we secure x-y-z.
make me a sandwich and give me a blowjob

And then we'll address your petty little concerns

waitingpatientlyforspring · 27/02/2021 00:15

Its a bizarre theory/statement.

I'm attracted to men. Not all men. I'm not attracted to ginger & very blond men. I don't find oriental men attractive . I don't find tatoos or smokers attractive. I don't want to sleep with someone with a vagina. So if a dark haired, non smoking, non tattooed trans man came my way I probably wouldn't be attracted to him if he had a vagina. It is not transphobic to not fancy someone. Just as its not racist to not find a certain race unattractive.

Attraction is not something we can control and we all like different things.

Anovaneway · 27/02/2021 00:28

I don't find oriental men attractive

Some people would say that is mildly racist though. You’re ruling out an entire group based on race.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 27/02/2021 11:23

@Anovaneway

I don't find oriental men attractive

Some people would say that is mildly racist though. You’re ruling out an entire group based on race.

I am attracted to men so that makes me a misogynist because I am ruling out an entire group based on sex.
minchinfin · 27/02/2021 11:32

I am a straight woman. My type is dark men, I don't generally find blond, blue eyed men sexually attractive. Does that make me phobic to blonds? I am straight and as others have said a penis is pretty integral to sex for me. However, I find many butch lesbians attractive and think I could cope without a penis in that scenario. What I don't find sexually attractive are feminine looking women or feminine looking/acting men. I could never have a sexual relationship with a transwoman, with or without penis, because, I guess, I am attracted to masculinity. That really has little to do with genitals and I wouldn't suddenly want to have sex with a very feminine presenting, camp man, or transwoman, just because they showed me their penis. These things are surely innate for the vast majority not people?

jay55 · 27/02/2021 11:32

It is massively racist to use oriental to describe people.

Justhadathought · 27/02/2021 11:35

It is massively racist to use oriental to describe people

Not in Britain, it isn't. Oriental is still a very common term used to describe both things and people from the Orient. It is far more specific than 'Asian'. It is not used in an offensive way, nor is it generally taken to be offensive.

Justhadathought · 27/02/2021 11:38

There is still a university called SOAS. The School of African & Oriental Studies.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 27/02/2021 11:43

Thanks JJ for the information on Iran.

CorvusPurpureus · 27/02/2021 13:28

@jj1968 the misgendered furry & oestrogen in the covid vaccine made me cackle. Grin

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