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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury’s Eighth- Sealion training for beginners

999 replies

SophocIestheFox · 13/02/2021 21:08

Old thread nearly full!

————————————-

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
ErrolTheDragon · 21/02/2021 23:10

Lamppost or bollard cosies?
When we visited Oban a couple of years ago, there's a street that goes up to the tower which had a knitted cosy on each lamppost. They were functional, imo, as undressed lampposts are painful to knock up against.

For small amounts I suppose you could do cane toppers to stop people poking their eyes out when they're weeding.

l450v.alamy.com/450v/e9bymk/yarn-bombing-knitted-sleeve-around-a-lamppost-in-oban-e9bymk.jpg

PothoIeParadies · 21/02/2021 23:13

Ooh, ooh, spoke too soon.

My surgery does have its own form online (which yes, I clearly remember completely in hard copy yonks back).

Does not ask sex or gender (but does marital status) but has special section, headed for "female patients only". In there it asks about smears, mammograms and past obstetric history.

MaudTheInvincible · 21/02/2021 23:14

My surgery has the purple GMS1 form as standard to register and also a supplementary Health Questionnaire, which bizarrely asks for marital status but neither sex nor gender! It does ask for smear info from female patients only Confused

ErrolTheDragon · 21/02/2021 23:18

BreakfastCrunchies My Gp registration is by the standard GMS1 form
I'd assume nowadays they can get medical records from previous GP for most people so I wouldn't expect it to go into detail.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/826307/GMS1-family-doctor-services-registration-form.pdf

Cwenthryth · 21/02/2021 23:21

We actually move recently so have just registered with new GP. They texted me a link to a registration form; it asks for sex and only gives M/F options. Nothing about any medical history but once I registered I was invited to a new patient check with a nurse so presume they go through that then.

So 👍🏻 my new GP so far.

PothoIeParadies · 22/02/2021 04:04

I have realised that I will know if I ever reach a reasonable standard of eloquence when speaking about my philosophy and my adolescence, as someone will immediately delve into my background and find links between the council estate where I was born and evangelical Christianity. Or something. My mother pnce mentioned going to an anti-Neo-Nazi sit-in before I was born, so maybe it'll be that.

I'm sure I've set foot on tarmacked pavement that BNP voters have also set foot on, so that's the Potholes and her links to the far-right documentary sorted!

Sorry, as you were. Just needed to complain to someone.

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 22/02/2021 06:55

I have just received a warning (actually not a strike) about the word I used to describe how the trans movement is advocating for their cause. I believe that this word not is considered appropriate for the debate here.

In the dictionary, the word I used is described as “information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view”.

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 22/02/2021 07:02

I believe that this discussion really is hitting a nerve with some people at the moment. I really appreciate MNHQ for hosting this discussion. People here should probably be aware that there is a likely mass reporting going on with any posts that strike nerves and that MNHQ is likely to be overwhelmed with all the reports and having to walk a very fine line.

I am going to make the same comments again, worded more carefully on that thread as I think the point is important. I was worried about children being told information where they may not get the full picture of potential consequences. I was also worried about them ending up on medical drugs for the rest of their lives as a result.

FannyCann · 22/02/2021 07:14

Is it the word or the context Coffee?

Surely in the context of a discussion of historical authoritarian regimes the use of propaganda is a highly relevant theme to explore? Not to mention present day regimes, especially when considering the accuracy of information regarding coronavirus coming from some parts of the world?

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 22/02/2021 07:24

You are not allowed to use that word in the context of trans advocacy.

I do believe that you must be allowed to say that the stonewall information in schools are too simplistic.

In addition, there are many you tubers who present a completely biased view of what it entails to be trans (there are no controls on any you tubers).

Furthermore, prominent trans figures in today’s society, gives out an airbrushed air of success and control (as do all public figure).

Taking those things into account, and considering the silencing of women who present an opposing view (and online rape and death threats of online GC advocates), I am concerned that the overall information flow will be biased and misleading.

That should be ok, or?

BreakfastCrunchies · 22/02/2021 08:23

Does not ask sex or gender (but does marital status) but has special section, headed for "female patients only". In there it asks about smears, mammograms and past obstetric history.

Yes, my current surgery also has a "female only section" of its paperwork.

I wouldn't mind if it didn't ask any info beyond "last GP surgery" and then I could believe they plan of collecting the information later. But it does go into the effort to ask :
Diabetes
Skin Disease
High Blood
Pressure
Nervous Disorders
Heart Attack Congenital Disorders
Stroke Cancer
Epilepsy/Fits Allergies to
Medicine/Food
Asthma Any other Disease of family

How many units of alcohol I drink

and if I am an ex smoker the details of what I smoked prior to giving it up Which I am fairly sure is non-emergency info they could take later too. Hmm

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2021 09:27

Hm. Misleading and/or biased information is presumably okay as a phrase? You could add 'arguably' perhaps.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/02/2021 09:36

factually parsimonious?

persistentwoman · 22/02/2021 09:40

Is there a list of forbidden words? Maybe the next Bunbury thread could contain them at the top? I have discovered that grooming is not allowed nor is delusional.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/02/2021 09:45

I'm imagining this massive quilt embroidered with all the words that women were censored from using to describe ourselves and our experiences in the world.

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2021 09:49

Scared to write a list of banned words incase I get banned for it. Grin

gardenbird48 · 22/02/2021 09:49

@BreakfastCrunchies

Sorry quick favour please. Would those of you who here who have a few minutes free, mind checking your local GP's website and clicking on the new patients registration form? My new Gp has their forms for me to print and fill out which are basically the same as I've ever known. Lots of questions about medicines, family health history, medical history alcohol but none about pregnancies/smears which I've always been asked before. It doesn't even ask sex. I started a thread about it on AIBU but everyone is claiming to have never seen such a form! I've moved around a bit in the UK and had it on every form I'm sure.
This is ours but is used alongside the standard nhs form which gives a tick box for male or female so the info is captured as part of the process.

The option for ‘Lord’ as a title choice (Mr, Mrs etc) made me laugh - do I live in a posh area or is that standard?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/02/2021 09:52

Not "Lady' then? :)

gardenbird48 · 22/02/2021 09:52

The rest of the form is smoking, family diseases, military and drinking - nothing female specific.

gardenbird48 · 22/02/2021 09:55

Oh yes, ‘Sir’ or ‘Lord’ but no Lady. Shock. I do live in the 1950s mind...

Bunbury’s Eighth- Sealion training for beginners
persistentwoman · 22/02/2021 09:58

@ArabellaScott

Scared to write a list of banned words incase I get banned for it. Grin
Sad Grin
ArabellaScott · 22/02/2021 10:12

'communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts in order to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language in order to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.'

picklemewalnuts · 22/02/2021 10:13

I can't see my form.

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 22/02/2021 10:18

My fear is that we not have any outlet where we are allowed to use words which may accurately describe what potentially is going on in a concise way.

This comes back to the silencing of women and how this debate is simplified and often one sided. It makes it more difficult to reach people who are new to the debate?

Would it make sense to have separate threads on a few of the issues where we need to phrase it carefully in order to work out efficient arguing within the guidelines?

ErrolTheDragon · 22/02/2021 10:23

@picklemewalnuts

I can't see my form.
I can. Photos can take a while to upload to the servers.