Allison Bailey to sue Stonewall -thread 2

[OvaHere]

Previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3950877-Allison-Bailey-to-sue-Stonewall

Allison's website allisonbailey.co.uk

Statement

First and foremost, I hope that my legal action will bring me justice. I also hope that it can stop Stonewall from policing free speech via its Diversity Champions scheme.

Stonewall have signed up many companies, public bodies, voluntary sector organisations and government departments to their manifesto and their value system regarding trans rights. What is called Stonewall Law. Without most of the public realising it, a large swathe of British employers have signed up to the Stonewall value system. It has done this by trying to silence and vilify women like me who have genuine concerns about how its approach to trans inclusivity conflicts with the protections, safety and dignity of women, girls, children and LGB people.

We cannot achieve a just outcome for everyone while Stonewall are free to threaten women like me with the loss of our livelihoods and reputations. Stonewall must be held to account. I intend to do just that.

If anyone has any barrister's clerk type questions in relation to this, iI used to be one some moons ago.

Can I ask what Stonewall's tweet about the London Marathon said and why they deleted it?

They asked people to run in their team and pretty much all replies were #IStandWithAllisonBailey. It was glorious.

Fantastic.

Brava @BuntingEllacott

Tell me if I'm wrong?

It's 1.7 million including corporate donations. Plus I'd include advertising/sponsorship/merchandise under general fundraising. You are right though I looked at the wrong column and had the income at around £7.2m, so closer to a third of their income, more if you include investments and charitable trusts. Difficult to know how much fee income indirectly comes from the public sector but it's clearly not true that this is where most of Stonewall's income comes from. They obviously have a lot of support outside of government.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

What a shame you won't be able to 'delete' your upcoming court case from public view so easily, Stonewall.

Quite. June is going to be a busy month!

If I was Stonewall given how many people defame them I'd be instigating some legal battles of my own. Time they came out fighting imo.

Bunting 👏👏👏👏👌

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Yeah, don't be attempting to force team me, pal. You've been pushing the homophobic line all the way through here, so let's be clear you don't stand with me and I don't stand with you. Cheers.

Well said, BuntingEllacott. The forced teaming attempt could not be more blatant.

Not sure some people can tell when someone's being sarcastic.

The Cats Protection League have a lot of support outside government but that doesn't mean they should be able to get me sacked for vocally preferring dogs.

Allison's case, tho. Fab, innit? Making the lesbophobes and homophobes all sadfacey because the lesbians didn't nod along with their well funded bullshit intimidation.

I'll reiterate - it's now public domain that unnamed members of Stonewall wanted a lesbian economically punished because she said they did not represent her interests and set up her own grassroots organization to do so instead, and there is good evidence that her employer complied with the demand.

That's the case here. All the dust thrown up by anti-lesbian posters misreading accounts is pure theatre. The facts remain.

Was discussing the case with some friends, I didn't realise one of them is like, tottaaalllly anti-bio-woman.

I have always been politically apathetic etc I'm quite self-centred in that way, might be anxiety related!

But......I feel really motivated after just being called a TERF!!!!

All I said was, "I totally respect your opinion, but for me, it is important not to lose my biological identity. I have had experiences that a TW wouldn't have, but at the same time she will have had experiences that I probably can't comprehend. I think trying to force us both into the same round hole when I am a square and she is a triangle isn't healthy for either party"

In a Facebook chat with my friends, I've literally been thrown out of the chat!!

@jj1968

Tell me if I'm wrong?

It's 1.7 million including corporate donations. Plus I'd include advertising/sponsorship/merchandise under general fundraising. You are right though I looked at the wrong column and had the income at around £7.2m, so closer to a third of their income, more if you include investments and charitable trusts. Difficult to know how much fee income indirectly comes from the public sector but it's clearly not true that this is where most of Stonewall's income comes from. They obviously have a lot of support outside of government.

You mean you think they should spend thousands on silencing people asking legitimate questions about whether Stonewall are behaving in a way which is abusing its position of influence by making up definitions and advice which doesn't reflect the actual law at the moment but reflects their campaigning position which may discriminate against people on the basis of the protected characteristic under the said aforementioned law? You mean that they should take action against grass roots campaigns and individuals trying to hold power to account? And this is the best way they can spent their money? Acting against some of the very people they claim to be simultaneously representing the best interests of?

Ok then. Gotcha.

It enrages me, we've had to sit and listen to men dictate who we are, what we are and why we are for such a long time. I don't even think what we want is that much to ask for! grrrrrrrrrrr I'm really cross. I need to simmer down

I mean. You think Stonewall should try and screw over more people like Allison Bailey?

Just to clarify firmly.

Sympathies Yorkshiremummyof1
The reason why you're thrown out is because none of the arguments stand up to scrutiny - so the only strategy to uphold them is silencing and no debate. As you've found.

You mean that they should take action against grass roots campaigns and individuals trying to hold power to account?

I think they should take action against people who defame them in a way which might damage their reputation and cause financial loss such as people saying they are banned from schools or implying they are child abusers/groomers.

After all many of their detractors are more than happy to threaten libel at the slightest provocation.

Yes, I can well imagine Stonewall might get to the stage of trying to sue openly disobedient and compliant lesbians. As long as they also sell rainbow shoelaces and run pyramid schemes disguised as equality training courses, that's fine, apparently.
I presume they think they own us. Maybe they'll try to get a copyright on Lesbian™️

@persistentwoman

Sympathies Yorkshiremummyof1 The reason why you're thrown out is because none of the arguments stand up to scrutiny - so the only strategy to uphold them is silencing and no debate. As you've found.

It's alright, I just logged off Facebook and logged on Mumsnet!

Anyone know the annual membership fee for diversity champions ala stonewall?

That's non compliant, obviously. They're fine with the ones who at the very least keep quiet about being lesbian so as not to upset the penis.

"Ok, so you don't like cock. You don't have to tell anyone. Closets are for lesbians, you know."

Not that it’s a competition, but I’d say us bisexuals have at least as bad a time of it in terms of people denying and seeking to invalidate our sexuality - I’ve had lesbians tell me bisexuality isn’t real, and heard them refer to bisexual women who are dating men as ‘going over to the dark side’.

The bottom line is, we’re all attracted to who we’re attracted to, and as you say, no one should be pressured to have any romantic or sexual involvement with anyone they don’t want to - and they shouldn’t have to give a reason. But these labels - ‘gay’, ‘straight’, ‘bisexual - are socially constructed and defined, and they mean different things to different people

Anyone know the annual membership fee for diversity champions ala stonewall?

We should have that information soon via a few hundred FOI requests.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/%23DontSubmitToStonewall/all

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/04/shining-a-light-on-stonewalls-activities/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4158554--DontSubmitToStonewall-suggested-quick-action-by-Legal-Feminist

But these labels - ‘gay’, ‘straight’, ‘bisexual - are socially constructed and defined, and they mean different things to different people

They describe sexual orientation. Which is protected by law.

If anyone can make up definitions, how can we protect people whose sexual orientation makes them a target?

If you don't like people invalidating your bisexual sexual orientation, how do you think a lesbian feels when a heterosexual man in a relationship with a heterosexual woman can call themselves lesbians? Or two men, for that matter?

If you take any two people it’s likely they each will have had experiences the other hasn’t had, and may not be able to comprehend. I don’t feel like the fact i have periods and breasts and no penis makes my male friends and family any more fundamentally unknowable to me than my female friends. And there are many women in the world with whom I probably have far fewer experiences in common than I do with many men (eg my brother)