Allison Bailey to sue Stonewall -thread 2

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Previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3950877-Allison-Bailey-to-sue-Stonewall

Allison's website allisonbailey.co.uk

Statement

First and foremost, I hope that my legal action will bring me justice. I also hope that it can stop Stonewall from policing free speech via its Diversity Champions scheme.

Stonewall have signed up many companies, public bodies, voluntary sector organisations and government departments to their manifesto and their value system regarding trans rights. What is called Stonewall Law. Without most of the public realising it, a large swathe of British employers have signed up to the Stonewall value system. It has done this by trying to silence and vilify women like me who have genuine concerns about how its approach to trans inclusivity conflicts with the protections, safety and dignity of women, girls, children and LGB people.

We cannot achieve a just outcome for everyone while Stonewall are free to threaten women like me with the loss of our livelihoods and reputations. Stonewall must be held to account. I intend to do just that.

Empress

@TalkingtoLangClegintheDark

Empress

Dear God.

All I can say is thank fuck that there is a legal definition of homosexuality. Because it was left to the biggest charity paid to support to support homosexuals, we're fucked.

Christ knows how you can claim to support lesbians, when a definition of a lesbian can mean two men, a man and a woman, or two women.

But does not explicitly mean two biological women who are exclusively same-sex attracted.

The demise of Stonewall is very, very sad.

*if it was

What I’m not sure I get is why anyone has an issue with the new LGBA group anyway. So long as the group is not doing anything illegal why are Stonewall / their supporters getting involved, and trying to get them closed, spreading lies, using the act of setting up this new group to get AB sanctioned etc?

If I belonged to a Cats Protection League and they decided some of the monies I helped raise where going to support dogs and I didn’t want that, I’d be free to set up my Only Cats Protection League surely?
If I had found a gap in the market, and membership grew, good for me. If people thought I was being too exclusionary and had an issue with that, membership uptake would not happen and the group would fail.

I’d be pretty pissed off if the Cats (and now including dogs) Protection League thought they had any say in the matter.

I’m sure I must be missing something though.

@Datun

Dear God.

All I can say is thank fuck that there is a legal definition of homosexuality. Because it was left to the biggest charity paid to support to support homosexuals, we're fucked.

Christ knows how you can claim to support lesbians, when a definition of a lesbian can mean two men, a man and a woman, or two women.

But does not explicitly mean two biological women who are exclusively same-sex attracted.

The demise of Stonewall is very, very sad.

This.

This with bells on and then the bells have maracas!

@Datun

Dear God.

All I can say is thank fuck that there is a legal definition of homosexuality. Because it was left to the biggest charity paid to support to support homosexuals, we're fucked.

Christ knows how you can claim to support lesbians, when a definition of a lesbian can mean two men, a man and a woman, or two women.

But does not explicitly mean two biological women who are exclusively same-sex attracted.

The demise of Stonewall is very, very sad.

Christ knows how you can claim to support lesbians, when a definition of a lesbian can mean two men, a man and a woman, or two women.

But does not explicitly mean two biological women who are exclusively same-sex attracted.

In a nutshell! Thank you Datun

Helen

If the meaning of lesbian is widened in the way I think you say you ascribe to, then that becomes a way to disguise homophobic employment discrimination.

Let us suppose that Jane is a lesbian, i.e. same sex attracted. Her boss Simon finds out that Jane is a lesbian after he sees her out with her girlfriend having a romantic dinner. Her boss is disgusted by Jane's homosexuality and shortly after, sacks her.

Jane sues. But Simon's lawyer explains with wide eyes that Simon is absolutely fine with lesbians. He presents the evidence of all these other "lesbian" same-gender relationships in the office. Such as Melanie and her girlfriend, the pre-op and pre-hormone transwoman Beth. In fact, Beth recently got promoted, Simon's lawyer tells the tribunal. That's how unhomophobic Simon is!

And so on.

If I belonged to a Cats Protection League and they decided some of the monies I helped raise where going to support dogs and I didn’t want that, I’d be free to set up my Only Cats Protection League surely?

Exactly.

This is a very telling piece by Jo Bartosch from the new Lesbian and Gay News.

Lucy Masoud talks of her experience on the lesbian dating app, Hinge:

“At first all was well, and I enjoyed using the app. I matched with a few people and formed some good connections. The app was a great way to connect with people during lockdown. I even managed to get myself a few social distanced dates.”

Having had problems with other apps, Lucy was careful to select the “woman seeking woman” option. This was so she “would only see profiles of other women who had selected the same.”

But despite this Lucy was “shown profiles of trans women and men who identified as non-binary or gender fluid. There were also a large number of profiles of heterosexual couples who wanted threesomes with another woman.”

Frustrated by attention from biological men and straight couples, Lucy updated her profile “to let users know that I was only seeking other females.” She changed it to read “all I ask is, that you are on time, that you don’t judge me for watching Love Island, and that you are a biological female”.

Lucy says: “I did not think what I had written was at all controversial, it would save people wasting their time trying to match with me if they were not female.”

Hinge disagreed. Much to her dismay Lucy recalls:

“Within days of me editing my profile I received a message from Hinge to say that I had been permanently banned from the app. I immediately contacted Hinge to ask why they had taken this action, and was quickly informed it was because I had breached their terms and conditions in respect to ‘offensive content’. I instantly knew it was due to my stating that I was only interested in females. There was absolutely nothing inappropriate on my profile that could be deemed ‘offensive’, apart from my comment about only wanting to meet females.”

For Lucy, such intolerance is reminiscent of the prejudice of earlier decades:

“As a black lesbian who grew up in the 80s, our community were fighting for basic human rights, to be told in 2020 that I was no longer allowed to only want to date females, is beyond disturbing.”

Hinge were contacted for comment but no response was forthcoming.

How can this not be deeply homophobic/lesbophobic? How can people justify this to themselves? What is wrong with “LGBT” circles that this can happen and is deemed OK? Lesbians are not entitled to be exclusively same sex attracted, or to state that they are, on a lesbian dating app. What fresh hell...?

It’s appalling.

Link to full article:

lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/02/lesbian-women-talk-about-meeting-transbians-on-women-only-dating-sites/

Oh FGS @TalkingtoLangClegintheDark where is this going to end? I'm going to get told I can't request semi skimmed milk in a coffee because I might upset someone who prefers skimmed?

I've done a little digging today which I hope helps Allison.

Isn't Lucy's experience potentially grounds for discrimination action on the basis of sexual orientation?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Isn't Lucy's experience potentially grounds for discrimination action on the basis of sexual orientation?

How convenient that Stonewall have been working very very hard to make people associate sexual orientation with gender not sex....

3. All people with the LGBT umbrella are entitled to expect their interests as LGBT people to be represented by stonewall

So calling the police on Lesbians protesting at Pride, that they are same sex, not same gender attracted works in this context?

Acceptance without question indeed

Being LGB is all about what sex you’re attracted to.

Being T is about prioritising gender over sex.

Does anyone else see a difference here?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Isn't Lucy's experience potentially grounds for discrimination action on the basis of sexual orientation?

It looks like it fits the description of discrimination pretty comprehensively, to me.

Penalised for saying you are same-sex attracted. That's direct discrimination, surely?

That's direct discrimination, surely?

If it isn't, I'd like to know what is.

Please support lesbians.

Lesbians are permitted to say no to Stonewall.

#IStandWithAllisonBailey

LGB people have rights and matter.

Lesbians do not need permission to be exclusively sane sex attracted.

Lesbians will not be silent.