ONS reversed decision to record census by sex

[purpleboy]

mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1359875526261882887?s=19

The ons has reversed its decision to record the census next month by sex.

Time for a mass campaign? Shall we all ID as men?

Might make them take notice, especially if they hear in advance?

[talkingdeadscot]

Or maybe I won't

[purpleboy]

CROSSTALK I have only seen it on FPFW website/Twitter page. It says government official leaked.

[Justforphoto]

If they are asking about how you are identified on your passport how the hell do you answer if you do not have a passport?

[ThatIsNotMyUsername]

I don’t have one right now.

[Slub]

Yep I don't have a passport therefore presumably I don't exist.

[TheElementsSong]

So, how can we register a protest on the form?

[Lifeinaonesie]

Can I identify myself as a koala then? I love hugging trees and getting stoned on eucalyptus in my spare time.

[HubertHerbert]

How are they going to know if we put something different to what appears on the passport?

[CormorantStrike]

Alice Sullivan has a twitter thread on this - there is a letter in the Times today: twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1359779914283687939

The thing is, they are still going to include the question on sex (and a follow-up about gender identity), it is how they are defining sex in the guidance that seems to be the issue. Instead of asking for legal sex registered at birth, ie. natal sex (not that it should really need the qualifier, but there you go!), it is suggesting using legal sex as recorded on eg. your passport, which can be changed as an adult...

PS. Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

[CaraDuneRedux]

@ArabellaScott

I want to know exactly how it's phrased. If it's 'gender identity' I will be 'gender neutral' or some other made-up bollocks phrase.

"none"

[TabbyStar]

Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

For one thing it will presumably be possible to do statistical analysis on the similarities and differences between women and transwomen, which I'd be very interested in (though does the phrasing of the questions enable that, I've not been paying close attention as I don't want to be annoyed?!)

[ChonkyChook]

@CormorantStrike

Alice Sullivan has a twitter thread on this - there is a letter in the Times today: twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1359779914283687939

The thing is, they are still going to include the question on sex (and a follow-up about gender identity), it is how they are defining sex in the guidance that seems to be the issue. Instead of asking for legal sex registered at birth, ie. natal sex (not that it should really need the qualifier, but there you go!), it is suggesting using legal sex as recorded on eg. your passport, which can be changed as an adult...

PS. Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

If they're asking for make believe they'll be getting it on all questions from us. Sorry.

[nauticant]

I'm tempted to tick boxes randomly and write next to each answer "while this doesn't reflect actual reality, this is how I'm identifying at the time of filling in this form".

[CormorantStrike]

@TabbyStar

Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

For one thing it will presumably be possible to do statistical analysis on the similarities and differences between women and transwomen, which I'd be very interested in (though does the phrasing of the questions enable that, I've not been paying close attention as I don't want to be annoyed?!)

This is exactly the issue - at the moment, the way the question is contextualised (not the question itself, which still asks about sex) means that people may interpret sex as 'gender', despite there being a separate question about gender identity. As a pp notes, this means we cannot robustly identify transwomen/men, which to my mind is damaging for the transgender community as well as for women! But I take the point that supporting trans people isn't really part of the TRA agenda...

[TheElementsSong]

@nauticant

I'm tempted to tick boxes randomly and write next to each answer "while this doesn't reflect actual reality, this is how I'm identifying at the time of filling in this form".

This sounds like how I'll be genuinely FEELING on the day, oh yes indeed.

[Abitofalark]

We are all working, nay, living with data and everybody wants our data, it seems. You can't even have a virus test or a vaccination without being asked Do you identify as? Whatever that is. I don't take kindly to the question and I do not obediently parrot I identify as.

But, me aside, seeing as anyone can be female one day and male the next, or some other notional undefined thing on Saturdays, what does that do to the precious data? And if anyone can routinely do that day to day, anyone can follow the same practice when filling in the census. And what are social scientists doing about that?

[TheElementsSong]

And if anyone can routinely do that day to day, anyone can follow the same practice when filling in the census.

Furthermore, what's so magically special about gender that means it alone trumps reality? Why can't other things like age, ethnicity, disability and nationality also trump reality? Therefore, it will be entirely logical for me to (I stress) genuinely identify on the day as a 76-year-old Korean man of Yemeni nationality, with dementia.

[CormorantStrike]

@ChonkyChook I can understand why you feel that way, I really can. It is all so frustrating and to be honest it is making me pretty angry on many levels. Obviously because it is more erasure of women, which being in academia is an ongoing struggle. And on a professional level, it is just going to make people mistrust statistics even more, which makes my job much harder and makes me feel like I am wasting my time :-(

The ONS is supposed to be ensuring that its data meet certain quality criteria - including accuracy and reliability - and this decision is totally undermining that. It's utterly depressing.

[SunsetBeetch]

Wtaf. This is madness.

[MichelleofzeResistance]

Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return...

But this is in effect asking people who are capable of putting other people's needs and interests above their own to stay in their box to enable others to get out of it at will.

No. I will not obey laws that apply only to some people, and try to protect the system from being totally fucked up in the process. If it's going to be fucked up then the more fucked up it gets the better and as fast as possible until it's re thought. It's appalling to spend this kind of tax payer money and staff time on data that will be fictionalised and more about the emotional experience of the filler in than forward planning for their community.

Fucked up priorities, fucked up boundaries. I'm not supporting that.

[CormorantStrike]

@Abitofalark Quantitative social scientists are the ones calling for the robust data on both sex and gender... we need quality data to do our work!

[Alternista]

Not a fucking chance am I filling the rest of that out correctly if they’re allowing fantasy choices in the Sex field. I hope the 2021 census does go down as the one where no data could be trusted. There need to be consequences to this shit.

[ChonkyChook]

[quote CormorantStrike]@ChonkyChook I can understand why you feel that way, I really can. It is all so frustrating and to be honest it is making me pretty angry on many levels. Obviously because it is more erasure of women, which being in academia is an ongoing struggle. And on a professional level, it is just going to make people mistrust statistics even more, which makes my job much harder and makes me feel like I am wasting my time :-(

The ONS is supposed to be ensuring that its data meet certain quality criteria - including accuracy and reliability - and this decision is totally undermining that. It's utterly depressing.[/quote]
Genuinely feel for you, it sounds crap.

I've been sticking my neck out for ages speaking up on this, I've lost friends, had to leave a sports club, I'm not sitting down now.

They can take me to court.

[CormorantStrike]

@MichelleofzeResistance I know, I agree with you and its shit. There is no easy answer. I guess I am probably in denial that the census, which is such an amazing resource and has been used to do so much research that could help improve people's lives, has been horribly compromised .

[Highwind]

Let it be compromised, let it be compromised to the point of uselessness.

They wither want factual data or they don’t, they clearly don’t.

I wonder though, would it be worth noting Gender Critical in any gender field? It might help send a message if enough of us do it.... and might highlight our plight in 2121 like the old suffragettes did in theirs.