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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ONS reversed decision to record census by sex

266 replies

purpleboy · 11/02/2021 15:21

mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1359875526261882887?s=19

The ons has reversed its decision to record the census next month by sex.

Time for a mass campaign? Shall we all ID as men?

Might make them take notice, especially if they hear in advance?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2021 10:21

"People will lie so there is no point in even trying to collect accurate data" is a ridiculous, shameful excuse.

CormorantStrike · 15/02/2021 10:39

alljhuizinga the paper copies are entered via a scanner as far as I am aware. Just be mindful that there is a process that they call 'remove false persons', which means that if there are invalid entries on a certain number of 'key variables' then the record with be thrown out (and probably not even looked at). As far as I am aware you need to have a valid response for: name (on the individual or household grid variables), date of birth, sex, marital status and ethic group. You need to have a valid response on at least two of these for your record to be included (one of them needs to be either name or dob).

I think the approach of putting Gender Critical in religion is the one most likely to be actually noticed and recorded.

TheElementsSong · 15/02/2021 10:45

Please tell me this is a wind-up.

mobile.twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1361263393722753024/photo/1

What if I do not identify with the census options?

The census asks you about your ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation, religion and national identity. It's up to you to decide how you would like to answer each question. Do it in the way that you feel best represents you.

jhuizinga · 15/02/2021 11:00

Thanks, Cormorant. So, if all boxes other than Sex were correctly filled in, it would be a valid but incomplete return. However, the correct information is on the return form so it might be difficult to be fined for this? (Just thinking aloud really.)

MichelleofzeResistance · 15/02/2021 11:23

t's up to you to decide how you would like to answer each question. Do it in the way that you feel best represents you.

Aaaand if there was any doubt that this is now a very, very expensive 'lets all have a fun time filling it out and bugger worrying about a huge pile of completely useless, pointless data that renders the collation of it not only pointless but unethical', that's put it to rest.

Yeah, fill it out with your 'best self' and have fun. Who knows how you may feel in the moment when you're writing the answers? Why not, its only tax payer money and ten years of local services being able to plan to meet need in the middle of a pandemic.

MichelleofzeResistance · 15/02/2021 11:29

Seriously: well done FPFW.

I will wait for the largest consensus on how to respond.

But I will not be filling out a form that gives me no option but to comply with personally agreeing to a political/pseudo religious belief I am strongly atheist about. That way madness lies.

And to be very clear about this: I am very happy for there to be as many options for as many additional things on that form as people want.

What I will not do is agree that I have a gender identity, or that I agree sex is a concept and a choice instead of a fact, or fill out a form that will only allow me to progress (and not be fined) if I comply with the above. Or co operate with a census that no longer collates factual, necessary and usable information.

minchinfin · 15/02/2021 11:54

I'm thinking about filling it out honestly I. Sex - female (as I am, born female, female chromosomes and passport says female) and Gender Identity - none, as I honestly don't feel like I have one.

in the old days I would have defaulted to I am female and am a woman, but since being forced to examine this by the gender fluid, non binary trend, I have had to conclude that I genuine do not feel any identity particularly connected to being female, or at all. Has anyone seen what the chooses will be for this question?

Does Sex - female, Gender Identity - none convey the gender critical position of many women properly?

And similarly for my male partner, who is also gender critical - sex - male, gender identity - none?

TheShadowyFeminist · 15/02/2021 12:02

"FPFW have instructed a barrister to see if ONS have/are breaking the law."

Brilliant. This is what's needed.

I'll happily contribute towards any digging required to support this - a clear, factual, legal analysis of the stance taken by ONS in respect of the collection of data on sex should be the starting point.

I think requesting the paper form still needs to be a tactic as the ONS will certainly get a clearer idea as to how many women they are risking not capturing (while we all bugger off on wild camping) & I hope that helps them get a sense of the strength of feeling on this.

But clarifying the legal position for possible JR is a vital step.

minchinfin · 15/02/2021 12:05

Surely all the non-binary, gender fluid brigade are pissed off about the gender question too as they also can't answer "does your gender identity match you sex" as declared in teh first section. And any trans people who are happy with their legal sex change will answer yes, so how will they be distinguished from big standard men and women?

minchinfin · 15/02/2021 12:19

If I put female and No for "Does your gender identity match your sex" (because I am gender critical/have no gender identity) does that make them think I am:

A) A transman who hasn't legally changed sex yet?
B) A transwoman born male but who subsequently chnaged sex to female but is now in the process of detransitioning?
C) A person who is legally female (perhaps born, perhaps subsequently chnaged) who now feel they are gender neutral/fluid/non binary?
D) A biological female woman who doesn't feel they have a gender identity or who identifies as non binary/ gender fluid?
E) A female version of Eddie Izzard who is in 'boy mode" on the day they happen to be filling in the form?

The possibilities seem endless to me and hence don't help anyone either identify how many men, women or trans people there are so what is the point?

SunsetBeetch · 15/02/2021 17:18

The BBC today:

www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-wales-55721123

MichelleofzeResistance · 15/02/2021 17:37

Well there you go. All the tax payer money will be spent so the BBC can write lots of lovely fuzzy feel articles about how lovely the visibility is.

Totally fucked up planning, compelled belief, no idea how many people of what sex we actually have, and whoops self id by stealth and the erasure of sex as a concept, but isn't it nice .

JaninaDuszejko · 15/02/2021 18:54

Written to my MP to complain and donated to FPFW.

I think using the religion section to record that you are gender critical is problematic. There will be gender critical individuals may have a strong religious faith and so those people will have to choose whether to write their faith or their gender critical status. I think we have to use the optional gender question to register our protest and hand fill in either 'none' or 'gender critical'. And we need to make a decision and then publicise it. Agree writing to local papers is a good idea.

Gurufloof · 15/02/2021 19:39

hand fill in either 'none' or 'gender critical

Hmmm but will it simply be registered as a "gender" after all it could sound like one if you've seen anything about agender/gender variant/non gender/gender fluid etc.
This would massively increase the trans population which helps no one.
And I'm not sure that putting none is a great idea either.

We probably need to know how each answer we could give will be noted.
And I don't know how we would find that out

stumbledin · 16/02/2021 00:01

Please dont response to the gender quesiton.

It is optional.

It is reallly important to show that for 99.9% of the population this is totally irrelevant.

NiceGerbil · 16/02/2021 00:50

This is the problem isn't it.

The office of national statistics have decided to change the sex question to legal sex.

They did this because they were worried sex at birth would lead to mass disruption in completion by people who did not find that a reasonable question.

So it's been changed.

Their thinking will be that such a small amount of people will have changed their sex marker on passport etc will be so small it won't matter. Plus that most people will just look at the question male female and tick their sex.

That's a poor way to do things. Across the board language is being changed etc and it's relying on people seeing gender and putting their birth sex as they don't know about the definitions. And making assumptions. That's a terrible way to collect data.

And so it's been changed and lots of women and others are unhappy.

But as ever it's a done deal and we say well what do we do?

Be honest because we know what they want
Be honest according to stonewall (most people are trans)
Put it in religion
Etc etc

So we're left bickering over how to fill in the sodding census to make a point. Because yet again we're on the back foot.

There's no point in saying let's do this or that.

If course it was changed because of the threat of trans activists and their supporters disrupting it.

The idea that women might hasn't crossed their minds.

In my household we are all non binary. And I'm not fucking with it. None of us internally identity as male or female 100% of the time.

And some of us don't have an internal gender identity.

We're trans. By the rules that's what we all are.

That's what I'll do.

Female or male plus trans and non binary. What sex are you? They need to understand for maternity planning, primary schools, elder care etc and so on. But somehow. Actually they don't need to know.

I think it's pointless to argue about what to put where. It's trivial in the end. Feels like doing something but in the end. The question is gone and they are fine with that.

NiceGerbil · 16/02/2021 00:53

Also.

On Twitter I see that the question being changed to legal sex is not good enough.

Apparently evil feminists have won (!).

And people aren't going to answer.

So...

minchinfin · 16/02/2021 09:00

so sex equals female, "does your gender agree with your sex?" Leave blank?

That's the way I was going anyway.

DaisiesandButtercups · 16/02/2021 11:37

@stumbledin

Please dont response to the gender quesiton.

It is optional.

It is reallly important to show that for 99.9% of the population this is totally irrelevant.

This

This is the best strategy with filling in the census in my opinion.

MerchedCymru · 16/02/2021 21:16

#SexintheCensus
#Census2021
#SexnotGender

ONS reversed decision to record census by sex
MoleSmokes · 17/02/2021 00:52

Oooo! MerchedCymru where did you find that graphic? It would be handy to paste the text. I looked on “The Political Erasure of Sex” thinking it would be there along with the Reports on “Sex and the Census”

thepoliticalerasureofsex.org/

Another great hashtag on Women’s Place UK!

#WomenCountSoCountWomen

”Sex and the Census: Call to Action”

womansplaceuk.org/2021/02/10/sex-and-the-census-call-to-action/

stumbledin · 17/02/2021 13:55

I am a bit concerned by the notion that some groups think they are now going to direct us how to respond to the census.

That isn't their role as campaign groups.

We need to know how their campaigns are going and if they have stopped campaigning why.

We are each capabable of filling in the census as we see fit.

Why are these groups not doing something more proactive eg supporting the legal action by the one group who for some reason isn't part of this attempt to tell women how to think!

By the way there is a factual error on the home page of the new web site.

MoleSmokes · 17/02/2021 15:38

Apparently FPFW cannot be part of this campaign because it might compromise their legal case.

They have, however, been tweeting their support for this campaign.

I have not seen any suggestion that the organisations that have signed up to this campaign are distancing themselves from FPFW.

The fact that they are campaigning in this way does not preclude them supporting FPFW in their legal case.

What is the factual error - and on which website?

"We are each capable of filling in the census as we see fit."

Of course we are.

Some might wish to support the campaign and others might not.

It's a free country - at least as far as this is concerned.

howonearthdidwegethere · 17/02/2021 15:40

I'm confused.

No-one is obliged to do what these campaign groups advise. You can take whatever action you want, or even kickstart a different campaign with different aims and tactics.

Oldstyle1 · 17/02/2021 15:47

The image is on their FB page MoleSmokes - www.facebook.com/MerchedCymru
and on the LGBA's page - www.facebook.com/LGBAllianceUK

I actually feel excited to see all of those logos together. Women have really stepped up to the challenge in the UK.

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