ONS reversed decision to record census by sex

[purpleboy]

mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1359875526261882887?s=19

The ons has reversed its decision to record the census next month by sex.

Time for a mass campaign? Shall we all ID as men?

Might make them take notice, especially if they hear in advance?

[SmallPug]

Rather hilariously, our household has been asked to do the census by interview (they are doing phone instead of in person due to Covid). Obviously I will tell them exactly what I think of them not collecting accurate data. Is there anything specific I can say or do to help?

[MiddlesexGirl]

Oh that sounds encouraging.
Thank you @thirdfiddle and @stumbledin

[stumbledin]

MiddlesexGirl - have found this set of guidelines from a local council. Looks like they no longer talk about "head of household" and where there is more than one adult either agree who fills in form on behalf of everyone or ask for individual forms (I think!).

www.doncaster.gov.uk/services/adult-social-care/census-2021-frequently-asked-questions-faqs click on link to Households

[RestingPandaFace]

@CormorantStrike

Alice Sullivan has a twitter thread on this - there is a letter in the Times today: twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1359779914283687939

The thing is, they are still going to include the question on sex (and a follow-up about gender identity), it is how they are defining sex in the guidance that seems to be the issue. Instead of asking for legal sex registered at birth, ie. natal sex (not that it should really need the qualifier, but there you go!), it is suggesting using legal sex as recorded on eg. your passport, which can be changed as an adult...

PS. Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

Can I echo that as someone who was a department manager on the last census. The shit (sometimes literally) that people do to census forms is revolting and caused so many incidents last time!

[thirdfiddle]

Middlesex, reading through their doc on sex/gender it definitely said there would be an option to request an individual link for adult residents if you wanted.

[Leafstamp]

Shameless link to this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4168855-Fairplay-for-women-take-ONS-to-judicial-review-for-redefining-sex-in-census?pg=2

[MiddlesexGirl]

Thanks. I did think I was going a bit mad, not being able to find anything on, what seems to me, such a basic question. I'll have a look at the ONS social media.

The issue for me, in case it's not clear from the context of this thread is that I have at least three people in my household where I'm not sure how they would answer questions such as the hated gender identity but also sexuality. And I don't want to ask them or see their answers as that's an invasion of their privacy.

[MoleSmokes]

MiddlesexGirl - you are right and I apologise for sending you on a wild goose chase! There is NOTHING on either the ONS or Census site to help answer those basic questions.

The best leads I could find are on this page where there is this text plus links to social media accounts:

"If you have any questions about the census, you can find the latest information by following us on social media.

Our free contact centre opens on 1 March. From then, you can also get in touch with us by phone, webchat, email or text message."

Contact Page
census.gov.uk/contact-us

[MiddlesexGirl]

I still can't see the answer to my question. Have looked through all the pages that look relevant.

I believe in the past a paper form came to the house and one person could fill it in for everybody .... I think. But last time was a lot easier as all my children were minors.
This time I have adult children and also non-family members living with me. So do they get to do their bit separately?

[MoleSmokes]

@MiddlesexGirl

Can anyone tell me how the census is completed? For a household. Can just anyone decide they're doing the census for the household and fill in my answers for me? Or do we each have our own separate 'accounts'?

All the info is here:

census.gov.uk/

[MiddlesexGirl]

Can anyone tell me how the census is completed? For a household. Can just anyone decide they're doing the census for the household and fill in my answers for me? Or do we each have our own separate 'accounts'?

[RedToothBrush]

www.economist.com/britain/2021/02/16/trans-identity-becomes-an-issue-in-britains-census?utm_campaign=editorial-social&utm_medium=social-organic&utm_source=twitter
Trans identity becomes an issue in Britain’s census
Some worry self-identifying may make the data less reliable

[stumbledin]

Part of me thinks there shouldn't even be any campaigning on the basis of trans right vs. women's rights.

Staticians (and politicians and economists - as if) should have been directly challenging the Census for not doing their job properly ie collecting and collating actual facts.

But then that brings us back to the fiction of the GRA. This has been the stepping stone (by falsely saying you can legally change sex) to the campaign to erase women's sex based rights.

[stumbledin]

thirdfiddle but if you haven't been consulted or dont agreed with the shared action it doesn't really help.

It always amazes me that on mumsnet where a lot of time is spent putting over a range of views, that suddenly when some unrepresentative group says this is what you should do every one goes oh yes of course if that's what you say.

Rather brings into question why anyone bothers with mumsnet threads if they dont want to have to think for themselves but are just waiting to be told what to do / think.

And to repeat again any suggestion that anyone responds to the gender identity question is totally going to undermine women's rights.

Gender doesn't exist. Do not let the system captured by Stonewall trap you into recognising it by responding to this question.

It must be ignored.

[MoleSmokes]

@Oldstyle1

The image is on their FB page MoleSmokes - www.facebook.com/MerchedCymru
and on the LGBA's page - www.facebook.com/LGBAllianceUK

I actually feel excited to see all of those logos together. Women have really stepped up to the challenge in the UK.

Thanks Oldstyle1!

I agree with this:

"I actually feel excited to see all of those logos together. Women have really stepped up to the challenge in the UK."

The rapidity of putting together a coordinated, collective response, including canvassing for ideas, is very impressive.

The very fact that this has happened at all will have a positive impact.

It is always possible that the Census date will be delayed, as in Scotland due to Covid, which would be helpful.

I am really shocked at the suggestion that this might be the last census. So many statisticians working in different fields are saying that they use and need the Census. Quite apart from all the family history fanatics - they must be going apeshit if they have heard about this!

[thirdfiddle]

Lots of people have asked for an agreed tactic - statistically lots of us doing the same so that it shows up in the data would be a powerful indicator of the strength of feeling on this.

This is a grassroots movement consisting of lots of individuals and groups with certain views in common. Not a political party. I think the number of groups in the consensus is fantastic as it shows how many women, from various different perspectives, are concerned. Sheer amount of work that has already happened setting up all those groups and staking out positions.

And that lots have agreed a unified approach increases our chances of making an impression. I don't know what their plan is but I'll be looking with interest and hopefully following it if it aligns enough with my views. Inevitably others will find themselves disagreeing with the approach and do their own thing. That's fine.

[Oldstyle1]

The image is on their FB page MoleSmokes - www.facebook.com/MerchedCymru
and on the LGBA's page - www.facebook.com/LGBAllianceUK

I actually feel excited to see all of those logos together. Women have really stepped up to the challenge in the UK.

[howonearthdidwegethere]

I'm confused.

No-one is obliged to do what these campaign groups advise. You can take whatever action you want, or even kickstart a different campaign with different aims and tactics.

[MoleSmokes]

Apparently FPFW cannot be part of this campaign because it might compromise their legal case.

They have, however, been tweeting their support for this campaign.

I have not seen any suggestion that the organisations that have signed up to this campaign are distancing themselves from FPFW.

The fact that they are campaigning in this way does not preclude them supporting FPFW in their legal case.

What is the factual error - and on which website?

"We are each capable of filling in the census as we see fit."

Of course we are.

Some might wish to support the campaign and others might not.

It's a free country - at least as far as this is concerned.

[stumbledin]

I am a bit concerned by the notion that some groups think they are now going to direct us how to respond to the census.

That isn't their role as campaign groups.

We need to know how their campaigns are going and if they have stopped campaigning why.

We are each capabable of filling in the census as we see fit.

Why are these groups not doing something more proactive eg supporting the legal action by the one group who for some reason isn't part of this attempt to tell women how to think!

By the way there is a factual error on the home page of the new web site.

[MoleSmokes]

Oooo! MerchedCymru where did you find that graphic? It would be handy to paste the text. I looked on “The Political Erasure of Sex” thinking it would be there along with the Reports on “Sex and the Census”

thepoliticalerasureofsex.org/

Another great hashtag on Women’s Place UK!

#WomenCountSoCountWomen

”Sex and the Census: Call to Action”

womansplaceuk.org/2021/02/10/sex-and-the-census-call-to-action/

[MerchedCymru]

#SexintheCensus
#Census2021
#SexnotGender

[DaisiesandButtercups]

@stumbledin

Please dont response to the gender quesiton.

It is optional.

It is reallly important to show that for 99.9% of the population this is totally irrelevant.

This

This is the best strategy with filling in the census in my opinion.

[minchinfin]

so sex equals female, "does your gender agree with your sex?" Leave blank?

That's the way I was going anyway.

[NiceGerbil]

Also.

On Twitter I see that the question being changed to legal sex is not good enough.

Apparently evil feminists have won (!).

And people aren't going to answer.

So...