The same as racism? Help me out please.

[talkingdeadscot]

So, after yet another discussion last night, my DH said that my insistence that I would not allow a TW to perform an intimate examination at the doctors on me as akin to racism. I don't think it is but I can't articulate why. Why is my refusal to accept TWAW as discriminatory as racism? He says it's because I'm denying a minority exists and has rights. I said I'd also refuse a man but apparently TWAW so that's not the same even if I personally refuse to accept that TWAW (which I do)

Help!

Scolding women for objecting to being harmed by men. Some things really don't ever change.

Circle jerk?

Christ not all men are threats you know

Of course NAMALT. Are you able to tell me which ones are and which ones aren't? I find it a little bit difficult to tell. Your wisdom on how to tell would be very helpful going forward.

Waits....

Not ever having heard the term circle jerk before. I felt compelled to look it up.

circle jerk (plural circle jerks) (vulgar, slang) A group of males masturbating ("jerking off") together (with or without interpersonal contact). (vulgar, slang)

Lovely.

@Hettia

Not ever having heard the term circle jerk before. I felt compelled to look it up.

circle jerk (plural circle jerks) (vulgar, slang) A group of males masturbating ("jerking off") together (with or without interpersonal contact). (vulgar, slang)

Lovely.

Seems to be a currently fashionable term for women who are talking about their concerns regarding this ideology.

I guess it's supposed to invoke shame in those who've come together to discuss and share information. It appears to be most prevalent in people who claim to be 'sex positive', which is ironic since it works by suggesting that there's a sexual seediness involved in having these conversations 😂

It seems to me to be used by the terminally sanctimonious who want to scold women but need to reassure themselves that they're still edgy.

@Hettia

Not ever having heard the term circle jerk before. I felt compelled to look it up.

circle jerk (plural circle jerks) (vulgar, slang) A group of males masturbating ("jerking off") together (with or without interpersonal contact). (vulgar, slang)

Lovely.

It also means doing something which is nothing more than a waste of time but is for gratification of management only. I heard it first in US from some fellow engineers when they were saying that such and such meeting was a “circle jerk”. As in useless waste of time.

@talkingdeadscot
I know nothing about you or your DH
BUT
take the heat out of the conversation

• does he accept that people can be both black and white and brown at the same time ?

• does he accept that people can have both a prostate and a cervix?

• does he recognise that over 90% of trans people retain their birth genitalia

get those three sorted
THEN
move on to the emotive stuff

ListeningQuietly

He knows that biological sex is real but believes gender identity trumps all. He also knows that 90% of trans people retain their birth genitalia. As I said its a bit illogical as I don't understand how someone can say they know biological sex is real and people can't change sex but still thinks TWAW. The only conclusion I can come to is that he is convinced that ALL TW have gender dysphoria which somehow makes them feminine. Yet when I said about lady brain vs socialisation he said he doesn't believe in lady brain but thinks somehow if you have gender dysphoria then you won't be socialised as a biological male even though biology is real. This is confirmed by his assertion that if a TW attacks someone in a single sex space they weren't a real TW. He had nothing to say about how women tell the difference. He also had nothing to say about how many women/girls he's willing to sacrifice to prove his point.

In fact, he turned it round on me by asking how many TW I'm willing to sacrifice by banning them from women's spaces. I said as many as it takes to protect women as that is a problem for men to solve.

I'm a bit frazzled tbh and more than a little distressed right now x

Did you explain that assuming they all.have dysphoria would see him labelled a transphobe

You may find this a useful article OP.

A woman receiving treatment as a patient or services as a client or consumer is not doing anything that is controlled by the Equality Act 2010, so no question arises whether in insisting on being attended to by a woman she is “discriminating,” or whether there is a valid exemption that excuses her conduct: this is simply a matter of her boundaries, her dignity, her preference, and her consent. No means no.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/25/my-body-my-choice-privacy-and-consent-in-personal-care/

As crap as saying you wouldn't want a lesbian to do it in case she got turned on.

Seriously?!

@talkingdeadscot

Another quiet question to drip into his brain ....

If he needs a prostate check and a penile catheter
would he rather that a man or a woman did it?
And how would he react if his preference was ignored?

I'm afraid that you probably have drilled down to his core belief that male people are intrinsically more important than female people. And that female consent is therefore a limited, reduced thing that must come second to male people's rights and needs.

Its the socialisation we were all raised in, and it's what we're fighting. You may need to confront him with that reality: these beliefs are intrinsically very sexist, and based on seeing females as lesser. I use the word gynephobia more than misogyny as this is specific contempt and lower standards for someone with female biology. He's got no problem with who to prioritise when it comes to choosing between a female and a male regardless of degree of transition.

Haven’t read the entire thread but sending you strength.

@ListeningQuietly

He really wouldn't care although tbh he's had very little contact with medical stuff.

@MichelleofzeResistance

I fear you may be right. He believes he's such a good guy on the right side of history etc etc (which obviously I'm not) but there is a hierarchy there even though he can't see it. And why would he? He's male, of course he's going to prioritise males. I'm female and because I know the reality of that I'm always going to prioritise women and girls. The real question now is what does that mean going forward?

I’m sorry OP this must be really hard

Where does he stand on TW in sport? Does he think that’s ok too?

Yes because TWAW

As Llang Cleg pointed out once you give (Men) special status within an area you attract abusers, such as Jimmy Saville in TV celeberaties and Priests abusing children, and also Karen White abusing their female prisoner status.

Women should not have to remove safeguarding barriers from a group who pose a potential threat to them - would your husband fly on a plane with no airport security to validate people's feeling of being trusted.

The thing about race segregation is that the reality is the two groups are the same and pose no threat to each other.
Transwomen have the same offence rate as men for sexual offences and so some women would be collateral damage, would he consider the risk he is placing them in.

I’d stop discussing it with him tbh. He’s happy to handover women’s rights, hand waving it all away as it doesn’t affect him. It’s a quite astonishing level of disrespect for you as a woman and his wife.

(I bet he knows TW can be surrogates though)

He is arguing that it is more important for a female to validate a male person's sense of self than to be allowed to control access to her body - or that she should sacrifice her right to medical care if not prepared to put the male person's needs first.

I'm afraid what he says is not linking up with his very clear sex based thinking here.

Can’t!!!

Oh for an edit button

There are some good reports on the differences between men and women in sport, has he read/listened to any of these?

Does he think someone can identify as an ethnic minority even if they are white? and if not why not.

@Xoxoxoxoxoxox

As Llang Cleg pointed out once you give (Men) special status within an area you attract abusers, such as Jimmy Saville in TV celeberaties and Priests abusing children, and also Karen White abusing their female prisoner status.

Women should not have to remove safeguarding barriers from a group who pose a potential threat to them - would your husband fly on a plane with no airport security to validate people's feeling of being trusted.

The thing about race segregation is that the reality is the two groups are the same and pose no threat to each other.
Transwomen have the same offence rate as men for sexual offences and so some women would be collateral damage, would he consider the risk he is placing them in.

No because TWAW They haven't been socialised as men because gender dysphoria (not sure how that works) That means they aren't violent like real men are and women are being irrational excluding them. TW and women's struggles are the same Apparently long term it's better for women to have their sex spaces removed if that's what the majority want Fuck those that don't want it (including me)

@fakenina

There are some good reports on the differences between men and women in sport, has he read/listened to any of these?

Does he think someone can identify as an ethnic minority even if they are white? and if not why not.

TWAW We're all being ridiculous What about that poor person who now can't compete because nasty women gotcha

So what about TW who commit rape? They are obviously violent like men